[Serious] If I met Him...

[zwanzig]

If I met Him...then He wouldn't be worth worshipping.

I had the thought the other day based on the apologetic argument, "There isn't proof that you would accept in order to believe in a God." When I first heard it, I was affronted, like, "No! You haven't made a good case! My standard of proof is just higher than yours."

 But the more I tugged at the thread, the more I realized that is actually pretty accurate. At least when it comes to something demanding my worship, my reverence, my fear, and my obedience. We can talk about deity all we want but I'm going to tie these two things together because to me, they are linked: that the goal of proving existence of deity is tied to compelling my worship and veneration.

What proof would I need in order to accept the existence of a supernatural being that we'd call a God? 
I'd need to speak to them directly and I'd need a demonstration of their power that couldn't be explained by the natural laws of our world(I know, I'm making very vague parameters but the more specific we get the more into the weeds I get trying to define what "counts" as empirical data, when really I want to understand the dependability of my own logic train; if we have to go there to get here, then we'll get into it).

But if they did that, I would no longer consider them a God worthy of worship. Like, we're talking a God who's the Biblical God, creator of everything, and He's gotta waste His time doing parlor tricks for me? Not to reduce my worth or anything but it feels...off. I would need to know their motivation for singling me out. If they didn't single me out and everyone could talk to this reality-altering being, how is that different from a superpowered mutant from X-Men or something? 

It's a contradiction, I know. I'd need to speak directly to deity in order to confirm they were real but by doing so, the more contact I am able to have, the more normalized they become to the point of just seeming like another human or conscious being. It reduces their distance from me. Yet, if it was a deity that was so powerful and so big that it didn't have time or consideration for me and was untouchable...it probably doesn't matter if I worship them or not.

Like, even the need and desire for worship seems like such a petty, insecure thing. Asking for it already disqualifies you from deserving it. At least in my mind.

What do you think? I know there are probably holes in this and I'm super biased and specific yet vague. I'm a newb, and I've never explored these ideas before. Talk it through with me.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Good post.

Stephen Fry was once asked what he would say if he met God. His answer was, ‘Bone cancer in children - what’s THAT about?’

Seems to put in in a nutshell - any God who allows preventable misery, who demands worship on pain of eternal damnation, who creates sin and then punishes people for it, and who sets impossible standards as requisite for salvation is no more worthy of worship than any other abusive parent.

Boru

[arewethereyet]

When I was a kid, being raised Catholic, I didn't ever see the Bible stories as being literal. So many of the stories that were presented to kids (think Noah's Ark) were just too far-fetched for me to see as anything other than a fable. But I still really didn't doubt what I was being taught as far as there being a god, etc.

I was raised by terribly abusive parents. I remember praying with everything I had in me for God to make it stop. It didn't stop. Mom and dad were abusive to each other, abusive to me, it was a nightmare house of violence that could erupt at any moment. And still I prayed for God to step in. Being Catholic, of course I prayed to The Virgin Mary...she was a mom, right, she would help me.

Then came the realization that either God didn't care - I wasn't important enough for him to waste his time on....or he wasn't real at all. The latter seemed unlikely since everyone around me believed in God. So, obviously I wasn't worth help and obviously deserved the violence, the stress, the knowledge that my parents didn't want me around, especially my mother.

When I was older (late teens/early twenties) I had given up on asking God for help long before. Then I started doing some studying and really picking apart what I had been taught. Over time I realized there most likely no god at all. Then I spent some years trying to prove to myself there was. Then I got to the point where I am good with the knowledge that there is no god, never was, never will be.

If somehow, (s)he showed up I would have to ask, "What the hell?" "What could I have possibly done as a child to deserve what I went through?" "And where the fuck were you when I was pleading for help?"

Praise that...worship that? Not happening Captain.

[purplepurpose]

God send his son to die as a martyr. That's both insane, idealistic and badass. Religion is not for everyone.

[RozzerusUnrelentus]

Many atheists have answered that God knows what evidence would satisfy them as to his existence/purpose. And then Christians howl back that that answer is trite (probably because they can't rebut it.)

But at every stage, the proclaimed qualities of this so-called ineffable being are countermanded by the bible itself, and its adherents.

Just one example: James 4:8a - Draw close to God, and he will draw close to you. Well done, Dad. I'm your child but I'll make the first move. And if I don't you'll abandon me? Way to go, old man.

One drop of poison and no-one touches the well of sweet water. This God entity is poison. Jealousy, rage, murderous, a prima-donna selfie-addict narcissist, genocidal maniac. But he loves you! (George Carlin.)

And this thing wants your love and devotion on ITS terms?

Screw that.

[zwanzig]

@BrianSoddingBoru4

Yes! Brilliant! If I'm to be on my knees and dedicate my life to someone/something, it better be someone inherently good. I can't get on board with the "this life is a test" argument for suffering either. Either pain and misery is important or it's not. It can't be just a temporary test for me here in this life but then supposedly Christ's pain and suffering in sacrifice is the deepest, most thoughtful gift we all could have been given. It directly points to someone who's motives are not good or kind and the lack of clarity speaks to something deceitful happening. We could blame God but there are plenty who speak for Him that could actually fit the shoe just as well.

@arewethereyet

I am sorry for what you had to suffer through. And I'm sorry you had to believe in such a hurtful lie about your worthiness. I wasn't abused but Mormonism really messed me up as far as worthiness. I can empathize with that pain of feeling like my creator didn't care or didn't like me. If there ever was a God, they have a lot to answer for, indeed.

@purplepurpose

"Idealistic and badass"? If you're talking about Jesus Christ, I don't understand what you mean, describing things this way.

@RozzerusUnrelentus

It's supposedly the greatest, loving connection we could have; humans and their creator. And yet there are conditions. The answers for "why" were we created end up shrinking God to the size of a toddler with similar motivations and conceptual understanding of what it means to love.

[brewer]

Gods are made by humans. Of course they will have faults and not be worth worshiping.

There will never be any evidence more than argument and stories of a god concept.

[Rhizomorph13]

Accepting that God exists and is all powerfull yada yada...

What does he do in his free time?

How boring would it be?

What cell provider does he use?

Does he frequent failblog.org? If so, Can Haz Cheeseburger?

Does he change emotionally? If so, why? What could move the unmoved mover?

If God jacks off what comes out and what kinda porn would an infinite being be in to?

I'm 46 and the porn I look at now is stranger than when I was younger, so, just sayin' how kinky is God right now after existing for all of time?!

[The Valkyrie]

I've been asked if I receive incontrovertible evidence of god, if I would believe?

Yes, of course I would believe.

I wouldn't worship.

Because if you prove god, you also prove that its nature, as shown in the bible, is true.

And that god is not worthy of my devotion.

[ignoramus]

A god, any god cannot be anything else other than a highly advanced alien being. (technically).
Were we ever visited by one ... possible but not likely... then again, we may be their lab experiment...

The last thing they would want is our worship... Hell, they prolly can't even remember coming here...