Faith is Feelings

[zwanzig]

@Mercyvessel I understand. You don't want to think about it and answer the questions I actually asked.

[Mercyvessel]

@Mercyvessel I understand. You don't want to think about it and answer the questions I actually asked.

Actually, I did read and think, and gave the appropriate response; one pertinent, given in truth, and that matters... not one that you would simply acquiesce to.

[awty]

That is true. I have seen a lot of apologetics regarding the nature of God and the sacrifice of Christ that involve ignoring crucial evidence of his nature or reframing a "might makes right" ethics to be the best option.

Almighty God does not need apologists on His behalf.  We will all come to discover, one way or another, that there is only one God and that He is sovereign over all because He made all things, natural and supernatural, etc (John 1:3, Colossians 1:6), and that He is in fact merciful, selfless, faithful, good, true and just. All things notwithstanding, He declares that He will have the final say.  "...Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.” - Hebrews 3:15

A subjective non-understanding of a person's ways does not make said ways in fact wrong.  

A word, if you care to read, on God's sovereignty and righteousness - 

"I am the Lord, and there is no other; There is no God besides Me. I will gird you, though you have not known Me, That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting That there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things." - Isaiah 45:5-7

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts." - Isaiah 55:8-9

"He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he." - Deuteronomy 32:4

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[no one]

Looks like another sheep broke loose from the funny farm again.

[Paraselene]

Well, emotions are irrational. Just ask a Vulcan. Therefore, it stands to reason that faith is irrational.

[The Valkyrie]

Well, emotions are irrational. Just ask a Vulcan. Therefore, it stands to reason that faith is irrational.

Indeed.

[no one]

FAITH: (n) Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel.


Ambrose Bierce

[AFTT47]

Well, emotions are irrational. Just ask a Vulcan. Therefore, it stands to reason that faith is irrational.

At least non-rational. There is a difference between non-rational and irrational.

A non-rational belief is one which has its roots in emotion but has not yet been subjected to the scrutiny of logic.

An Irrational belief HAS been subjected to the scrutiny of logic and is retained despite failing that test.

I have personal experience with such. I was once an advocate of the idea of visitation by ancient aliens - particularly those championed by Erich von Däniken. I was emotionally predisposed to those ideas. I bought his arguments, not recognizing that they were non-rational. Eventually though, I saw a documentary which used science and logic to utterly destroy his arguments. If I had retained my belief in his arguments at that point, it would have migrated to realm of irrationality. I embraced logic though and modified my beliefs.

[Apollo]

I was thinking about it recently, trying to section out why certain people join certain religions or believe in certain Gods. And I was thinking about the personal morality people accept and define for themselves.

Why join one religion versus another? I think it's because you personally don't agree with those other religions definition of God and morality. What if they were true? Is truth only the commandments you would reasonably tolerate from a God? Even within your own accepted religion, there are things that "God" could ask you to do that you would tell him "no" instead of obeying. If God pulled an Abraham and Isaac on you, would you do as he asked and kill your child? 

 If you said "yes" to that question...that's a different discussion. But if you said no, how can faith be defined as anything other than your own subjective morality? 

Would it change things if God himself came down and told you to do stuff directly? Could you trust a supernatural being that asked you to do something that you felt was morally wrong? What proof would you need to know that this supernatural visitor was God and not something evil?

You got it all wrong—if god himself came out then you gotta ask the question, what is god made 9of? That’s more important question. Because anything that can interact with our reality gotta be made of the 5% of the stuff we are made of or else it’s ineffective at our level.

If you’re not asking that then you’re not asking question that matters (pun intended).

[Sal]

That is true. I have seen a lot of apologetics regarding the nature of God and the sacrifice of Christ that involve ignoring crucial evidence of his nature or reframing a "might makes right" ethics to be the best option.

Almighty God does not need apologists on His behalf.  We will all come to discover, one way or another, that there is only one God and that He is sovereign over all because He made all things, natural and supernatural, etc (John 1:3, Colossians 1:6), and that He is in fact merciful, selfless, faithful, good, true and just. All things notwithstanding, He declares that He will have the final say.  "...Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.” - Hebrews 3:15

A subjective non-understanding of a person's ways does not make said ways in fact wrong.  

A word, if you care to read, on God's sovereignty and righteousness - 

"I am the Lord, and there is no other; There is no God besides Me. I will gird you, though you have not known Me, That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting That there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things." - Isaiah 45:5-7

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts." - Isaiah 55:8-9

"He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he." - Deuteronomy 32:4

(bold mine)


Yet here you are.