Dawkins loses humanist title

[The Grand Nudger]

Can you see how a deference to bigoted fears does not conform to any humanist values?

Can you see how your rhetoric means nothing and gets nothing done? What is the answer to the problem?

I'm just going to keep telling you that I see no problems with trans people in bathrooms, and no solution to rapists in bathrooms by denying trans people access to those bathrooms.

Do you even really care? If not; shut the fuck up about it. If you do; answer the question.
And then realize what I'm trying to teach you is that the questions worth asking that lead to results are *never* popular you complete and utter moron.

See above, ad infinitum. I'd have to refer you back to a suggestion that I made before, as well. Perhaps you should research polling on the subject. The anti-trans laws are wildly unpopular, not the other way around. Not just with the filthy lefties, either. It seems that the answer to this question, at least - that could lead to a result consistent with humanist values, even, is pretty popular.

I may, ofc, also be a moron. We're all about more than one thing being true at the same time today, aren't we?

[Reforged]

Can you see how your rhetoric means nothing and gets nothing done? What is the answer to the problem?

I'm just going to keep telling you that I see no problems with trans people in bathrooms, and no solution to rapists in bathrooms by denying trans people access to those bathrooms.

Do you even really care? If not; shut the fuck up about it. If you do; answer the question.
And then realize what I'm trying to teach you is that the questions worth asking that lead to results are *never* popular you complete and utter moron.

See above, ad infinitum.

Alright, so the correct answer to my question then is I don't have a solution to that problem. 
Which you just spent hours trying to avoid. Bye.

[The Grand Nudger]

OFC I don't have a solution to the problem of rapists, but I know it has nothing to do with trans people.

[vulcanlogician]

I don't know what to tell you, man. I'm not trying to misrepresent what you're saying. But any time I offer a counterpoint, you accuse me of misrepresenting you. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding you to begin with. Or maybe you aren't being logical here.

Alright, let me try it from a different angle.
Lets say that there isn't a single man anywhere in the world who is low enough to dress up to gain access to victims. That noone anywhere in the world would dream of tarnishing the good name of transgender people by pretending they are one to gain access to victims. Lets pretend that probability is 0%, noone would ever do that in the history of the world. Ever.

Fine. That doesn't matter. That fears still there for alot of people. You're not going to talk it away. They want to know what prevents that.
They won't say yes to a transgender bathroom until it happens.
Alright, what do you offer them in terms of a contingency? What do you give them to make them feel safe enough to say "yes"?

Thats the question I've been asking, thats the question the other guy has been shamelessly avoiding.

FUCKING talk to me, not "other guy." If you have something to say to "other guy"-- say it to "other guy." JFC

I'm certain there ARE transgender sexual predators. But so what? There are straight cisgender predators too. I don't feel beholden to address people's elevated "fears" concerning transgendered sexual predators. Explain to me how that isn't prejudice?

"Lets say that there isn't a single man anywhere in the world who is low enough to dress up to gain access to victims."

What!?

Dude. We aren't even on the same wavelength. Let's assume that 10% of the population are depraved straight men willing to "dress up" to "gain access to victims." Okay then. Whereas before these individuals had access to school gyms, the bar (except for the ladies room), their office, the ally way, their home... now they have (in addition to that) access to the ladies room.

What does that grant them? Is rape THAT much easier when you are posing as a lady in the ladies room? Many rapists prefer to drug their victims right there in the bar and take them home... no ladies room required. 

How does access to the ladies room make rape easier? It doesn't. How much sexual assault is committed by men posing as women in the ladies room compared to men posing as men in the workplace? Get your priorities straight.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Fantastic, you just admitted you don't give a fuck about the plight of transgender people when compared to your ego and have entirely conceded any claim to superior morality.

Bye.

Nope nice strawman. I give a fuck about trans people because I realize placating irrational bigots will not help them in the slightest. It has nothing to do with ego, And your lies here have conceded any claim to superior morality. It's YOU who doesn't care because you're more interested with appeasing bigots than what's good for trans people, And thus have lost any right to judge me. 

BYE!!!

[Reforged]

Alright, let me try it from a different angle.
Lets say that there isn't a single man anywhere in the world who is low enough to dress up to gain access to victims. That noone anywhere in the world would dream of tarnishing the good name of transgender people by pretending they are one to gain access to victims. Lets pretend that probability is 0%, noone would ever do that in the history of the world. Ever.

Fine. That doesn't matter. That fears still there for alot of people. You're not going to talk it away. They want to know what prevents that.
They won't say yes to a transgender bathroom until it happens.
Alright, what do you offer them in terms of a contingency? What do you give them to make them feel safe enough to say "yes"?

Thats the question I've been asking, thats the question the other guy has been shamelessly avoiding.

FUCKING talk to me, not "other guy." If you have something to say to "other guy"-- say it to "other guy." JFC

I'm certain there ARE transgender sexual predators. But so what? There are straight cisgender predators too. I don't feel beholden to address people's elevated "fears" concerning transgendered sexual predators. Explain to me how that isn't prejudice?

"Lets say that there isn't a single man anywhere in the world who is low enough to dress up to gain access to victims."

What!?

Dude. We aren't even on the same wavelength. Let's assume that 10% of the population are depraved straight men willing to "dress up" to "gain access to victims." Okay then. Whereas before these individuals had access to school gyms, the bar (except for the ladies room), their office, the ally way, their home... now they have (in addition to that) access to the ladies room.

What does that grant them? Is rape THAT much easier when you are posing as a lady in the ladies room? Many rapists prefer to drug their victims right there in the bar and take them home... no ladies room required. 

How does access to the ladies room make rape easier? It doesn't. How much sexual assault is committed by men posing as women in the ladies room compared to men posing as men in the workplace? Get your priorities straight.

I was explaining my position and what you walked in on in one sencetence, theres really no need to get bent out of shape about it.

I just gave you ground. I literally just removed a step for you. You don't even have to argue about the probability, you can presume its zero if you like. But fine, make it more difficult for yourself.
If theres a basis for that fear, regardless of how small that basis is, people will not vote to have these bathrooms. Thats just always going to be a fear in some of the population. Lets say they're *incredibly* irrational. Fine. Doesn't matter, you need to convince them.

What you need is a way to dispel that fear. What is a realistic method of doing that? Thats the question.
For the purposes of this we're going to assume making everyone in the US rational isn't a realistic option.
So what is? Anyway, I'm kind of bored of this now and I've got things to do.
Bye.

[The Grand Nudger]

Do you think that pandering to or fueling their fears and positions would placate those fears? The aha doesn't think so in the case of dawkins.

Super-rationality may be impossible, but I think we can swing for a lower bar. That said, have any of the corrections or data provided to you in the course of this conversation changed your mind about anything?

[The Architect Of Fate]

You can't use reason to convince the irrational. Nor should public policy pander to them.

[The Grand Nudger]

Exactly, and suggesting a person has to have a solution..... to rape .....before trans people can use a bathroom..is absurd. As far as I know, no one solved rape before they let me start using bathrooms. I take the use of bathrooms for granted.

[vulcanlogician]

I was explaining my position and what you walked in on in one sencetence, theres really no need to get bent out of shape about it.

I just gave you ground. I literally just removed a step for you. You don't even have to argue about the probability, you can presume its zero if you like. But fine, make it more difficult for yourself.
If theres a basis for that fear, regardless of how small that basis is, people will not vote to have these bathrooms. Thats just always going to be a fear in some of the population. Lets say they're *incredibly* irrational. Fine. Doesn't matter, you need to convince them.

What you need is a way to dispel that fear. What is a realistic method of doing that? Thats the question.
For the purposes of this we're going to assume making everyone in the US rational isn't a realistic option.
So what is? Anyway, I'm kind of bored of this now and I've got things to do.
Bye.

If that's all you were trying to say then, yeah, I missed it. Sorry about that.