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The latest billionaire space circle jerk.
#11
RE: The latest billionaire space circle jerk.
At work.

At one time ocean travel was only for the rich. Unless you were 'Human cargo' or other wise offsetting your food and space.

At one time cars were only for the rich.

At one time air travel was only for the rich.

Eventually the investments ( *cough* Price gouging *cough*) in the infrastructure to build the mass production factories and infrastructure lowered the Average' prife into ths reach of the 'Common person'.

One can but hope history will repeat for this technology.

Then there's the access to a Solar system's worth of resources. We can stop frakking, open cut mining, etc the world and maybe let nature grow back.

Coffee
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#12
RE: The latest billionaire space circle jerk.
(September 20, 2021 at 5:55 pm)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: At work.

 At one time ocean travel was only for the rich. Unless you were 'Human cargo' or other wise offsetting your food and space.

At one time cars were only for the rich.

At one time air travel was only for the rich.

  Eventually the investments ( *cough* Price gouging *cough*) in the infrastructure to build the mass production factories and infrastructure lowered the Average' prife into ths reach of the 'Common person'.

 One can but hope history will repeat for this technology.

Then there's the access to a Solar system's worth of resources.  We can stop frakking, open cut mining, etc the world and maybe let nature grow back.

 Coffee

I think the ultimate problem is that humans do not understand that we are an invasive species, and that no matter what new technology we come up with, we don't realize the faster we grow in population, the more resources we use. Our planet cannot keep up with our pace of expansion. 

I am not looking for perfection. There is no such thing. But as a species, we are woefully unaware of our pace.
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#13
RE: The latest billionaire space circle jerk.
At work.

Yes.... hence why I said we head off and spread the resource use burden over a far larger area.
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#14
RE: The latest billionaire space circle jerk.
(September 20, 2021 at 5:37 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(September 20, 2021 at 5:33 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I am not begrudging problem solving. What I am warning against is ego driven profit chasing. Rockets require fossil fuels to get into space. So if we replace every passenger jet, which also requires fossil fuels, with rockets, and takeoffs of rockets were as daily as our current takeoffs of passenger jets, at the same volume, would not help in solving climate change.

I don't see a 100% future where all burning of fossil fuels will cease. But we certainly can as a species reduce that burning to a manageable level. But right now, "space tourism" is not only impractical, it won't end our burning of fossil fuels. 

For right now as far as space exploration, that needs to be limited to science, not exploitation. 

In theory, I'd love to see the majority of humans being able to view the planet in orbit. I do think psychologically it could imprint the notion that our only home isn't to be fought over and one we all share. But the fact is, fossil fuels are killing our planet. And I don't think it is as simple as replacing passenger jets with rockets in the same numbers. 

Imagine space travel launching rockets at the same rate every day as passenger jets. It still requires burning fossil fuels in both cases. That solves nothing. 

I am for space exploration. But for now, I think humanity would be better served at limiting rockets to science, not pleasure.

Space rockets don’t use fossil fuels. They never have.

Boru

Not true, while some use liquid oxygen and hydrogen, but many still use liquid oxygen and kerosine as fuel, the kerosine being distilled from petroleum
The meek shall inherit the Earth, the rest of us will fly to the stars.

Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups

Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in mud ..... after a while you realise that the pig likes it!

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#15
RE: The latest billionaire space circle jerk.
(September 21, 2021 at 3:59 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote:
(September 20, 2021 at 5:37 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Space rockets don’t use fossil fuels. They never have.

Boru

Not true, while some use liquid oxygen and hydrogen, but many still use liquid oxygen and kerosine as fuel, the kerosine being distilled from petroleum

I accept the correction.

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#16
RE: The latest billionaire space circle jerk.
(September 21, 2021 at 3:59 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote:
(September 20, 2021 at 5:37 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Space rockets don’t use fossil fuels. They never have.

Boru

Not true, while some use liquid oxygen and hydrogen, but many still use liquid oxygen and kerosine as fuel, the kerosine being distilled from petroleum

It is not true. Burning anything adds to climate change. In theory if we had the population of the world of say, 20,000 years ago, you'd be right. But right now, humans, regardless of what we burn, are contributing to green house gasses, and no matter the fuel we burn, it is all contributing to global warming.
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#17
RE: The latest billionaire space circle jerk.
(September 21, 2021 at 5:24 am)Brian37 Wrote:
(September 21, 2021 at 3:59 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: Not true, while some use liquid oxygen and hydrogen, but many still use liquid oxygen and kerosine as fuel, the kerosine being distilled from petroleum

It is not true. Burning anything adds to climate change. In theory if we had the population of the world of say, 20,000 years ago, you'd be right. But right now, humans, regardless of what we burn, are contributing to green house gasses, and no matter the fuel we burn, it is all contributing to global warming.

Know what you get when you burn hydrogen? Water.

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#18
RE: The latest billionaire space circle jerk.
(September 20, 2021 at 6:13 pm)Brian37 Wrote:
(September 20, 2021 at 5:55 pm)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: At work.

 At one time ocean travel was only for the rich. Unless you were 'Human cargo' or other wise offsetting your food and space.

At one time cars were only for the rich.

At one time air travel was only for the rich.

  Eventually the investments ( *cough* Price gouging *cough*) in the infrastructure to build the mass production factories and infrastructure lowered the Average' prife into ths reach of the 'Common person'.

 One can but hope history will repeat for this technology.

Then there's the access to a Solar system's worth of resources.  We can stop frakking, open cut mining, etc the world and maybe let nature grow back.

 Coffee

I think the ultimate problem is that humans do not understand that we are an invasive species, and that no matter what new technology we come up with, we don't realize the faster we grow in population, the more resources we use. Our planet cannot keep up with our pace of expansion. 

I am not looking for perfection. There is no such thing. But as a species, we are woefully unaware of our pace.

Please stop using that term. You don't know what it means.

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#19
RE: The latest billionaire space circle jerk.
(September 21, 2021 at 5:24 am)Brian37 Wrote: It is not true. Burning anything adds to climate change. In theory if we had the population of the world of say, 20,000 years ago, you'd be right. But right now, humans, regardless of what we burn, are contributing to green house gasses, and no matter the fuel we burn, it is all contributing to global warming.

Burning fossil fuels is a big problem, but you really should know that not everything that burns is the same chemistry.

BTW, did you know that livestock is responsible for almost 15% of greenhouse gases?  So it's also true that climate change is not just about burning things.
Why is it so?
~Julius Sumner Miller
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#20
RE: The latest billionaire space circle jerk.
Yeah....so sayeth the shills from big oil. A rumor that got started by it's inclusion in the 06 climate report. Two sentences not found in the body, but the executive summary. In it's full glory-

Quote:The livestock sector is a major player, responsible for 18 percent of greenhouse gas emissions measured in CO2e. This is a higher share than transport.
It was untrue when it was written, it's still untrue, but it made it's way into public perception as a fact. The most appalling bit, though, is that even if we assumed it were true for shits and giggles - there's literally no way to tackle our climate crisis by producing less food. We can switch off oil, we can't switch off eating - we're already hungry, and will only get hungrier in the face of these difficulties.
It's bad for the rest of the world when americans are paid so little they can only afford chocolate mined by child slaves and clothes made in overseas sweatshops. - Robyn Pennacchia
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