Russia and Ukraine

[Deesse23]

In the meantime, you are using "Hulk, smash" logic.

No

"We", Putins enemies, Ukrianes allies, arent. Putin is!!!
Russia wants to "smash" Ukraine, "we" want Russia to stop, no more no less. Nobody wants to "smash" Russia, everybody wants Russia to stop smashing Ukraine.

[The Architect Of Fate]

The logic is that there are powers at work that we don't know about.
All I'm doing is asking what those are.

So far all you have done is throw around inane talking points and baseless conjecture and then whine when no one else agrees with you.

In the meantime, you are using "Hulk, smash" logic. We have to stomp the wrongdoer Putin for invading Ukraine. Which, fine... but by that logic, I'd expect you to apply it as universally as possible.
So, if you think the West (mostly US) is helping Ukraine out of the kindness of their hearts, because [Hulk speak]Putin bad. Me squash Putin[/Hulk], then you are nearly as brainwashed as the propaganda spewing pundits on Russia TV.

Nope, that doesn't follow. Just because we have not gotten involved with every conflict under the sun does not mean we can't have a principled altruistic reason for doing so this time. That's an epic non sequitur and one doesn't need to be brainwashed to reject your statements here. 

To me, nothing that Putin has said, even including his history lesson from 2019, justifies this invasion. Like we agreed earlier, $$$ speak louder. So, where is the money in this? Land? Resources?
Some months ago, I heard that Ukraine's cutting of water supply from the Dnipro to Crimea (fresh water, mind you) was one of the main reasons for the recent invasion... to take control of water. There's one resource. Is this thing I heard correct? maybe... google maps does show a massive canal from the river to Crimea: https://www.google.com/maps/@46.7282828,...a=!3m1!1e3
There are probably other reasons... crops, ore... geopolitical... this did speed up the adoption of the Swift-rival banking system for Russia, India and China to trade on, so expect more.

So baseless conjecture and more non-sequiturs.....Gotcha 

Don't think that I of Jehanne don't condemn the invasion, any invasion, any war. But do try to consider that maybe we are looking at it from a different perspective which, I think, is a bit less simple than whatever the official narrative is.
While the ideal outcome would be for Putin and the whole current Russian regime to be squashed, realistically that is very unlikely to happen.
Jehanne has been telling you what seems to be the most likely outcome and all you can say is something along the lines of "that is unacceptable, Putin must DIE!!!!"

So your first bit is a strawman I never said Jehanne or you were for the invasion, And no neither you nor Jehanne has given a realistic or likely outcome to the war I think quite the opposite really. 

Come on... be real.

Between us, you seem to be the one who can't be real as nothing you said so far challenges anything I have said 



Now take your Copium and  apply the Prep H liberally to your butthurt 

[The Architect Of Fate]

Unique perspectives 

[Jehanne]

Why would Russia ever have to worry about that??

Setting aside the loaded nature of your question, using the charged word "worry" --

No competent military leaders would risk vital nuclear assets by putting them right on the border where a HIMARS strike (18 more units were delivered today, more than doubling Ukraine's strength there) could take them out very quickly.

Nuclear assets are stationed well behind the lines for several reasons: their innate value as weapons, their specialized maintenance requirements, the cost/benefit of a multimillion-dollar tactical nuke being taken out by a $12,000 artillery shell, that sort of thing.

No competent military would do that ... "competent" being the key word.

I stand corrected. Well, then situate them 500 km or wherever they need to be and blow the Ukrainians to bits if they should ever enter Russian soil. Ergo, I agree that Russia should have no issues with Ukraine joining NATO (that's their excuse, not mine); simply abandon START I & II. I suspect that such would be cheaper than their current "military operation"; feel free to correct me if I am wrong on this one.

[The Grand Nudger]

That's not russias excuse.... though. There is no ukraine. That's russias excuse, the only one.

Genocidal war of territorial ambition -and it's a testament to russian hybrid war that we're talking about anything else as though we lived in any of the many alternative universes russian trolls have created to cater to western critics fragile sensibilities.

[The Grand Nudger]

Well, at least we agree on something!  The moral of the story is that being a member of NATO is not necessarily an inoculation against bad behavior.

Oh..idk, see russia invading any nato countries?  Or did you mean -other- bad behavior?  Is that -other- category even remotely relevant to the russo-ukranian war? I mean, fuck me....but is it really that far out to dream of a world where various nations do all kinds of fucked up shit -except- invade each other? Just one less thing, right?

[Jehanne]

Well, at least we agree on something!  The moral of the story is that being a member of NATO is not necessarily an inoculation against bad behavior.

Oh..idk, see russia invading any nato countries?  Or did you mean -other- bad behavior?  Is that -other- category even remotely relevant to the russo-ukranian war? I mean, fuck me....but is it really that far out to dream of a world where various nations do all kinds of fucked up shit -except- invade each other? Just one less thing, right?

I think that everyone, except for me & my idealists, are just plain nuts. The whole Ukrainian affair is why our World needs a One World Government, whose principal power lies in a democratically elected Parliament with a World Court. In my scheme, the World Prime Minister would be the administrative head of all governmental agencies, with the real power being with the Parliament. The Prime Minister could, at any time, be subject to a Vote of No Confidence.

The alternative is, someday, global thermonuclear war. Hopefully, enough humans will survive the environmental calamity to start things over, at least before the next war.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Call me when Yemen is an ally in standing like Europe is to America.

I won't hold my breath.

Europe is a continent, like Africa or Asia, not an ally.

You needn't be pedantic, I'm well aware of this banal point. Though I didn't think I needed to spell it out, I was referring to the European Union.

Now, do you care to address my point?

You may say there are more treaties between European countries and the US, than with Yemen... But, seeing as the Middle-East bottle got cracked with Iraq and Afghanistan, the question stands.

And this matters because ...?

I don't think you understand how a regime works. Its primary function is to remain in power.  

Shitcan the condescension if you want a decent conversation.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I stand corrected.  Well, then situate them 500 km or wherever they need to be and blow the Ukrainians to bits if they should ever enter Russian soil.  Ergo, I agree that Russia should have no issues with Ukraine joining NATO (that's their excuse, not mine); simply abandon START I & II.  I suspect that such would be cheaper than their current "military operation"; feel free to correct me if I am wrong on this one.

START I expired in 2009, START II never was ratified by the US Senate.

Also, regarding one-world government being the only alternative to global thermonuclear war, that strikes me as a bit of a false dichotomy.

[Jehanne]

I stand corrected.  Well, then situate them 500 km or wherever they need to be and blow the Ukrainians to bits if they should ever enter Russian soil.  Ergo, I agree that Russia should have no issues with Ukraine joining NATO (that's their excuse, not mine); simply abandon START I & II.  I suspect that such would be cheaper than their current "military operation"; feel free to correct me if I am wrong on this one.

START I expired in 2009, START II never was ratified by the US Senate.

Also, regarding one-world government being the only alternative to global thermonuclear war, that strikes me as a bit of a false dichotomy.

I'll make a (extremely sad) prediction for you -- in the next month, Russia will utilize tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine.