Learn the true mercy

[Angrboda]

Frege, the fierce god of symbolic logic.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

@akay

- The miraculous creatures are filled with your holy book, so why object to what is stated in the books of others?

2 Kings 2:11 New International Version (NIV)

11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.

Just to be clear, I have no especial animus towards the miracles in the Quran. I find them neither more nor less silly than the miracles found in the Bible, the Eddas, the Kalevala, etc.

If you like, you may take this as my support for religious freedom - people should be allowed to believe whatever fairy tales comfort them, regardless of the content of those fairy tales.

Boru

[Peebothuhlu]

At work.

Awesome! They returned!

Hello Akay and welcome to the forum.

So, I consider myself a "Non-theist" in that I've yet to see any indication for the supernatural.

Please might you explain to my what evidence you have for a diety or anything supernatural?

Cheers.

[The Grand Nudger]

@akay

- The miraculous creatures are filled with your holy book, so why object to what is stated in the books of others?

2 Kings 2:11 New International Version (NIV)

11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.

Just to be clear, I have no especial animus towards the miracles in the Quran. I find them neither more nor less silly than the miracles found in the Bible, the Eddas, the Kalevala, etc.

If you like, you may take this as my support for religious freedom - people should be allowed to believe whatever fairy tales comfort them, regardless of the content of those fairy tales.

Boru

Seems to me that isn't exactly a statement that makes sense on atheist forums at any rate.  Ilovejesusdotcom, maybe......but here?

Maybe we can get some clarification from akay? To me, it looks like standard copy aimed at a christian audience. Evangelicals, specifically, as it references the NIV.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

@akay


Just to be clear, I have no especial animus towards the miracles in the Quran. I find them neither more nor less silly than the miracles found in the Bible, the Eddas, the Kalevala, etc.

If you like, you may take this as my support for religious freedom - people should be allowed to believe whatever fairy tales comfort them, regardless of the content of those fairy tales.

Boru

Seems to me that isn't exactly a statement that makes sense on atheist forums at any rate.  Ilovejesusdotcom, maybe......but here?

Maybe we can get some clarification from akay?  To me, it looks like standard copy aimed at a christian audience.  Evangelicals, specifically, as it references the NIV.

Yeah, seems a little off the beam to accuse atheists of accepting biblical miracles but not qurannic ones.

Boru

[The Grand Nudger]

Da'wa by the numbers, I suspect. I feel like we could save our new friend alot of time and unnecessary frustration, here.

[akay]

This subject is the favorite of Islamophobes who find here an opportunity to attack the Prophet (sws)



We know that at the time, there was no commune to register the child in a national register or certificate issued by the hospital mentioning the exact moment of birth, and therefore only parents could we Given the age of the child (and again!), . We do not have hadiths reported by Aicha's parents (Abu-Barker and Um-Rumane) about Aisha's age at the time of her marriage. Similarly, the people of that time, they could only give us an approximation. There is obviously a doubt about it. Today, some of our grandparents do not even know their exact age, sometimes there is 5.6.7 ... years of age difference, so what about when it was 14 centuries ago! ?

We have no proof of a national register of the Arabian Peninsula of the 7th century AD! We only have suggestions, estimates and approximations.



Aisha was 18 years old at the time of the Hegira (ie at the time of the Prophet's immigration) and she became his wife at the age of 19-20, this is the minimum age what she can have!








: The detractors of Islam love exaggerated on this passage, they simply express their hatred in this way unfortunately.
Criticism of Aisha age during her marriage was a non-issue to his followers nor his enemies. People have very recently begun fabricating an issue about it because they struggle to find serious criticism of Muhammad.

European Judaism - "Child marriage was possible in Judaism due to the very low marriageable age for females. A ketannah (literally meaning little [one]) was any girl between the age of 3 years and that of 12 years plus one day;[4] a ketannah was completely subject to her father's authority, and her father could arrange a marriage for her without her agreement."

Not to mention you can go to Guatemala/Honduras/other South American cultures to

find child marriages to be the norm.
We must also consider the environment:
We know that the Arabian Peninsula is a warm country, and therefore the age of puberty is not the same as that of some European countries, American, Scandinavian, ... It is from the age of puberty that our actions are numbered, it is the age from which we have the capacity to judge things. At the time a person was eligible to get married as of the age of puberty, was the custom and this is how the age of marriage was determined. Aicha fulfilled all the conditions of marriage. Even now, there are certain countries where young ladies get married at a very young age.

A man like Mohammad having the place he had in society, would he ask for a little girl? And if he would have done that, his companions would think like his detractors at the present time and would have abandoned him. We know that the detractors of Islam at the time of Mohammad
they did not say anything about that,

Hazrat Aisha was 19, not 9 at marriage time? by Dr Zakir Naik
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=591109252136849


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Atheists need a consistent standard of morality. The good morals of one may be bad for another atheist


The worst criminals of all time the worst massacres the bloodiest wars have been waged by atheists in the name of their various ideologies.

Atheist Communism: More than 100 million dead over 80 years.

This includes:
- USSR, 20 million dead (even 40 million according to some historians)
- China, 65 million dead
- North Korea, 2 million dead
- Cambodia, 2 million dead
- Africa, 1.7 million dead
- Afghanistan, 1.5 million dead
- Vietnam, 1 million dead (5 million with the war waged by the US against Vietnam)
- Eastern Europe, 1 million dead
- Latin America, 150,000 dead
- International Communist Movement and non-ruling Communist parties, 10,000 dead

Clearly, the Inquisition's death toll is RIDICULOUS compared to Communism's. The absence of religion has nothing to envy to religion in terms of theocratic violence!

For more on the dead of Communism, read The Black Book of Communism:



This book describes on 840 pages the crimes committed by the communist states from 1917 to 1989. The main parts concern the Soviet Union under Lenin then Stalin, and China under Mao Zedong. Specifically, the facts described in the book include:

> USSR: - Gulags, forced labor camps, mainly from 1930 to 1953.
- The great famine of 1932-1933.
- The arrest of anti-Stalinist communists (including non-Russians), the assassination of thousands of them from 1934 (mainly in the USSR but also abroad).
- The great purges of 1936-1938.
- The invasion of Poland during the application of the German-Soviet pact (1939-1941).
- Forced population displacements. In particular, the study of the Soviet system seeks to show the existence of a continuity in the repressive policies of the governments that emerged from the October 1917 revolution throughout the history of the USSR, by confirming that the process of terror was set up in Russia shortly after the Bolsheviks took power, with the creation of the Cheka, the gradual banning of opposition newspapers, the arrest and execution of nobles, bourgeois, Mensheviks, anarchists and peasants, the brutal repression of workers' strikes or revolts.

> China: - The unprecedented famine of 1959-1961, a consequence of the failure of the “great leap forward”.
- The Laogais, forced labor camps, mainly from 1954 to 1978.
- The “cultural revolution”, described as being a “civil war, open or hidden”.
- The occupation of Tibet.

> Eastern Europe: Political trials, forced labor camps (mainly from 1948 to 1956), the repression of popular demonstrations (in the GDR in June 1953, in Hungary in 1956, in Czechoslovakia in 1968).

> North Korea: The repressions carried out by the dictatorial regime of the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea", since its establishment in 1948.

> Cambodia: The deportation, then the elimination of a large part of the urban population by the Khmer Rouge regime, in power from 1975 to 1979.

> Cuba: Imprisonments and death sentences since Fidel Castro took power in 1959.

> Afghanistan: The military intervention of the USSR from 1979 to 1989.

Many readers would be quick to retort that communism has nothing to do with atheism.

One need only take a look at Lenin's propaganda posters during the Russian Civil War to realize that atheism is an integral characteristic of communism:

One can see on the Soviet poster: a capitalist, a bourgeois, a monarchist and a monk; the traditional enemies of communist atheists.

Even the page dealing with Marxism in the Wikipedia Encyclopedia (with a leftist tendency) suggests that atheism is a non-negligible component of Marxism:




Other non-religious wars:

- The expansionist wars of the Roman Empire
- The Warring States (China)
- The war to unify China - the Qin Dynasty
- The Barbarian Invasions
-Charlemagne
- Genghis Khan
- The 1st World War
- Nazism
- The 2nd World War
- The many dictators
- Italian Fascism (Benito Mussolini)
- Lenin, Stalin, Stalinism
- The communism
- Maoism, The Cultural Revolution (1 million deaths), the "Great Leap Forward" (millions of deaths)
- Japanese imperialism (the Nanqin massacre)
- Atomic bomb, the Manhattan Project
- The Cold War (ideological)
- CIA, KGB
- The wars declared by the USA (Iraq, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia,...)
- The many conflicts in Africa
- More besides...


> Also those among the list of "serial killers" of the 19th century the colonial empires (England, France, Portugal, Holland), and funny fact: "secular colonial France"?

> I didn't even mention the wars in the name of nationalism, which claimed many victims (ex-Yugoslavia, Rwanda, Iran-Iraq, etc.).

> Without forgetting the Bahassist regimes (Iraq, Syria,...) which in the name of socialism and sometimes even of atheism, massacred and continue in certain countries, to kill each other, torture, etc.



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The Quran teaches moral, social and spiritual values

The moral, social and spiritual values that the Majestic Quran presents are the Divine values, reflecting the Creator’s perfection, His unceasing love and providence. These Divine qualities inspire the mind with humility and reverence. Clear and unambiguous teachings. These values lead to human freedom, responsibility and empowerment, timeless themes, that tells us ‘you can change your life if you want.’ One can’t fail to be impressed by this world order of kindness, generosity and love for the other. The Quran teaches how to worship the Almighty Lord, how-to live-in peace and harmony with one another and how to live healthily and wisely, it protects from the pulls of a hedonistic-pleasure seeking life.
.


The Quran strongly forbids bad behaviour, consuming alcohol, drugs, selfish habits like sexual indecency and adultery, gambling and taking of interest in business, jealousy, backbiting arrogance and anger. The Quran teaches, ‘give up these for sanity and happiness’ since people with these vices are trapped in a degrading cycle of evil that makes theirs and other’s lives miserable.

The Quran’s teachings are based on reason
The instructions of the Quran are strong, they can stand up to any logical and scientific scrutiny. From its historical accounts to its moral teachings it’s reasonable and scientific. There are many proofs, which show the Divine nature of the Majestic Quran.





We have to know that the one who descended Qur’an is the same one who created universe who is Allah Almighty, so it is impossible that Allah create things in a way and to tell us about these things in a different way in His book.

Therefore, we will find a complete conformance between scientific facts and the Qur’an if we understood both of them in the right way. Hence, if the science is in conformance with the verse so science is right and if not the science is definitely wrong. He Almighty says: (Do they not then consider the Qur’an carefully? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much contradiction.){Sûrat An-Nisâ’- The Women-verse82}



The strongest evidence that the Quran is not (and will not be) distorted is that Allaah The Exalted challenged His creation to produce the likes of it; then He challenged them to produce ten chapters only and finally challenged them to produce even a single chapter. Today, this challenge remains open. If the Quran is fabricated, why can they not even produce a single chapter and defeat their enemy?








Dr. Yoshihide Kozai is Professor Emeritus at Tokyo University, Hongo, Tokyo, Japan, and was the Director of the National Astronomical Observatory, Mitaka, Tokyo, Japan. He said:

“I am very much impressed by finding true astronomical facts in [the] Quran, and for us the modern astronomers have been studying very small pieces of the universe. We’ve concentrated our efforts for understanding of very small part. Because by using telescopes, we can see only very few parts [of] the sky without thinking [about the] whole universe. So, by reading [the] Quran and by answering to the questions, I think I can find my future way for investigation of the universe.”


Professor Tejatat Tejasen is the Chairman of the Department of Anatomy at Chiang Mai University, Chiang Mai, Thailand. Previously, he was the Dean of the Faculty of Medicine at the same university. During the Eighth Saudi Medical Conference in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, Professor Tejasen stood up and said:

“During the last three years, I became interested in the Quran . . . . From my study and what I have learned from this conference, I believe that everything that has been recorded in the Quran fourteen hundred years ago must be the truth, that can be proved by the scientific means. Since the Prophet Muhammad could neither read nor write, Muhammad must be a messenger who relayed this truth, which was revealed to him as an enlightenment by the one who is eligible [as the] creator.

see here

القرآن الكريم والعلم الحديث كاملة The Quran and Modern Science full Zakir naik youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFO4G7zXlU

[The Grand Nudger]

There's telling us that child fucking isn't bad, and there's telling us that your prophet wasn't a child fucker. Which lane are you in?

There's telling us that islamist expansion isn't bad, and there's telling us that other people are equally as shitty. Which lane are you in?

I don't think that you'll find anyone here who is impressed or persuaded by the fact that a religious person believes in their religion. No more so than you are. Christians are, likewise, convinced that they're right and you're wrong, and this obviously has not convinced you, so you can't reasonably expect it to convince anyone else. Any clarity on whether or not what you've posted is actually standard copy aimed at evangelical christians? I see you've now conflated atheism with communism with the historic reality of the soviet state - also almost certainly aimed at evangelical christians in the us specifically. Are you there? Are you human? Do you speak english? Do you realize that you are not amongst american evengelical christians, here? If you're looking for those guys, you've gotten yourself turned around, but we can direct you along to them, if that would be helpful to you.

[akay]

As long as the girl has reached puberty and the laws of her country do not oppose that marriage, it does not matter what you think

[Ahriman]

- USSR, 20 million dead (even 40 million according to some historians)
- China, 65 million dead
- North Korea, 2 million dead

Don't these numbers (and similar figures) suggest human life is dirt cheap? Why put humanity on a pedestal via religion (or any other way) when so many people can be killed and God does nothing about it?