THE Gun Thread

[Thumpalumpacus]

The fact that some supporters of the right to own guns don’t own guns themselves is extremely relevant - you opened that door when you specified ‘the majority of gun owners’, not the majority of voters.

According to various studies, about 1/3 of American adults own at least one firearm. A majority of gun owners is therefore anything above 16%. If you’re a champion of majority rule, don’t you think it’s rather silly for 16.1% of the electorate to dictate terms to 83.1%?

Your point about God is just idiotic. There is a significant difference between a belief in God and the actual possession of a firearm.

I didn’t answer your question about minority fairness because my position has nothing to do with minority fairness. If anything, I’m advocating letting the majority run roughshod over the perceived rights of this particular minority (gun owners).

But I’m not even advocating removing guns. I’ve outlined some ideas that could help ensure that only trained, safety-conscious, stable, law abiding people get to own guns. I’d even go a bit farther and add a grandfather clause that current gun owners could keep their guns without going through the steps outlined earlier (someone who has owned firearms for years without serious violations is likely to be responsible enough to continue to do so).

Boru

And how is a guy going to be able to prove he has owned those guns for years????


I get 100 points if the word " registration" is in your answer......

I keep receipts for major purchases.

[Thumpalumpacus]

People SEE the problem..
They disagree on your "solutions".

So what would you propose as a solution?

[Mermaid]

In my opinion , the 2nd Ammendment should be de facto abolished, to limit the owning of guns to the "militia only".  Of course, a new Constitutional Ammendment would be needed to do this.

It's a common opinion - but according to the Washington Post it is a minority opinion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk...vey-finds/

So is repealing RvW.

[onlinebiker]

People SEE the problem..
They disagree on your "solutions".

So what would you propose as a solution?

If your car is out of gas - putting new tires on it is not a solution.

Guns are not the problem. People are the problem. Control the problem people.

1. Make it a felony for anyone adjudicated by a court of their gun rights, to have a gun. The adjudication can be because of criminal felony, or as needed for mental health issues.

2. Require anyone adjudicated by the court as a "gun free zone" - to be required by law to obtain state identification that has a "No Guns" logo on it. Failure to comply is a felony.

3. Require a check of state ID at all gun sales - from FFL's or private citizens.

4. Make it a felony to fail to check ID at point of sale.

5. Make it a felony to sell to a person who is not allowed guns.

6. Put teeth in it -- put people who try to circumvent the law in very deep, dark holes for long periods of time.


Punish those that need punishing.

Punishing the law abiding citizen for the actions of assholes is just plain fucked up.

[HappySkeptic]

I'm generally against gun culture, but the long gun registry was a billion dollar boondoggle that served no public safety purpose.

Bullshit

It would have worked if the Conservatives had not undermined it

There could have been a registry, yes, if you were willing to put tens of thousands of rural people in jail for not registering their guns.

But, what was the main purpose?  Gang violence in cities isn't done with someone's old .22 rifle.  The state purpose was so that law enforcement, before responding to warrants or domestic calls, would know if they were dealing with a gun owner.

That was literally the best use-case they could come up with.  So, if you are a gun owner, I guess they come in with guns drawn.  So much for equal protection under the law.

[onlinebiker]

Bullshit

It would have worked if the Conservatives had not undermined it

There could have been a registry, yes, if you were willing to put tens of thousands of rural people in jail for not registering their guns.

But, what was the main purpose?  Gang violence in cities isn't done with someone's old .22 rifle.  The state purpose was so that law enforcement, before responding to warrants or domestic calls, would know if they were dealing with a gun owner.

That was literally the best use-case they could come up with.  So, if you are a gun owner, I guess they come in with guns drawn.  So much for equal protection under the law.

Registration has another purpose.

It tells them which doors to kick down when they start confiscation.

[The Grand Nudger]

Bullshit

It would have worked if the Conservatives had not undermined it

There could have been a registry, yes, if you were willing to put tens of thousands of rural people in jail for not registering their guns.

But, what was the main purpose?  Gang violence in cities isn't done with someone's old .22 rifle.  The state purpose was so that law enforcement, before responding to warrants or domestic calls, would know if they were dealing with a gun owner.

That was literally the best use-case they could come up with.  So, if you are a gun owner, I guess they come in with guns drawn.  So much for equal protection under the law.

IDK the situation up in canadia..but down here, gang violence in cities was overwhelmingly done with old guns, a significant portion of which are 22s.  Pistols, ofc.

You can actually check to see what the next biggest cohort in trace data is going to be by checking the production numbers from seven years ago.  Our gun problem is not as bad as it's going to get, just yet.  There was a massive spike peaking just around that mark.  Large caliber concealable pistols accounted for the biggest handgun portion of the spike.  They're going to completely replace revolvers in trace data (that's actually been happening for years).  Sport rifles were the other thing.  AR and AR clones.  

It's a long standing and well demonstrated relationship.  Started tracking it in 1986, iirc.  In sum, gun crime is a function of the availability of suitable weapons at a price that the prospective gun crimer can afford.   Hence, now-old guns from a production glut of concealables and semi auto rifles are entering crime for the first time...at present... in any large number.  Also just so happens to coincide with the rise of domestic terrorism, this go round.

It may be a good time to invest in a company that makes unobtrusive and stylish tactical vests.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

There could have been a registry, yes, if you were willing to put tens of thousands of rural people in jail for not registering their guns.

But, what was the main purpose?  Gang violence in cities isn't done with someone's old .22 rifle.  The state purpose was so that law enforcement, before responding to warrants or domestic calls, would know if they were dealing with a gun owner.

That was literally the best use-case they could come up with.  So, if you are a gun owner, I guess they come in with guns drawn.  So much for equal protection under the law.

Registration has another purpose.

It tells them which doors to kick down when they start confiscation.

Jaysus wept…

Boru

[The Grand Nudger]

Yeah, he's got a point. We could curb some gun crime and gun death by forbidding the cops from no knocking the living shit out of people.

As far as screening and adjudicating people for some sort of No Gun class beyond what we already have...I have trouble imagining what could be wrong about a person that would make it so they couldn't own a gun, but could drive a car. Just as one example. Or perform any number of jobs, as another. I doubt that the worst effects of such laws or regulations would have anything to do with guns. I strongly suspect that the most frequent use of any such system aimed at guns or at any other thing would be to defray and perhaps completely avoid corporate responsibility for malfeasance. When your unsafe work environment yields the inevitable, you get your now ex-employee popped with a No-Whatever license and then insist that this was a failure of the state, and not your company. Probably some use in nasty custody battles, too.

[onlinebiker]

Registration has another purpose.

It tells them which doors to kick down when they start confiscation.

Jaysus wept…

Boru

"Just TRUST" us - we're from the government..."



Yeah - no thanks.


Want to see the difference between two countries where they allow the citizens firearms or not?

Look at China - a brave unarmed man facing down a tank..... ( we don' t know where he disappeared to - but he was brave)

Then look at Ukraine - where the citizens could own guns.... They TAKE the tanks - and run the Soviets back to the border.... An unruly lot the Ukrainians. Ya gotta love ' em....