Did God play peek-a-boo?

[tjdisc]

It’s not an interpretation. It’s implied - reading comprehension. Adam DID hear God’s question and responded so it’s obvious God knew he could hear him and therefore knew where he was.

[h4ym4n]

Psalm 147:5 Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.

Genesis 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

Which one is true?

God was addressing Adam - in effect He knew He was close to Adam and Adam could hear Him.  He was making Adam admit to his hiding by asking that question.

We’re you there?

[tjdisc]

God was addressing Adam - in effect He knew He was close to Adam and Adam could hear Him.  He was making Adam admit to his hiding by asking that question.

We’re you there?

I'm simply addressing the text in an intellectually honest way - meeting the OP's argument (that the texts are conflicting) as posted.

[Angrboda]

It’s not an interpretation.  It’s implied - reading comprehension.  Adam DID hear God’s question and responded so it’s obvious God knew he could hear him and therefore knew where he was.

That doesn't follow in any way.

[Ferrocyanide]

Psalm 147:5 Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.

Genesis 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

Which one is true?

Literarily, they can both be true. There’s no conflict in God asking a question to which he already knows the answer.

Boru

It isn’t a matter of conflict. It is a question of “is it reasonable”. Is there a reasonable reason for what he (the jewish god) is doing.
Most people notice these things and so, I imagine LinuxGal noticed it as well.
And when you notice something, then why not mention it.

Even if some people want to claim with absolute certainty that Genesis is an allegory, it doesn’t change the fact that it makes this highly respected and loved god look silly.
If you want to place your god in a made up story, then at least make him appear respectable. More importantly, give reasonable reasons for why things are the way they are.

The Genesis story is certainly not allegory. It was taken as fact by all except for a handful of people who were wondering why their god didn’t create things in an instant.

But, even if you wish to sweep the Genesis story under the rug, what should we do about Jesus?
The same kind of nonsense appears throughout the Bible.

How does turning yourself into a human and spending 9 months in the womb of a women an efficient use of your time?
Are you telling me he doesn’t care? He doesn’t mind wasting his time?

[The Grand Nudger]

God, in the overall thrust of the abrahamic fairy tale, is limited. He had to do it that way, womb and all, for example..because otherwise the magic would not work. Would not be sufficient. Human sin cannot be atoned for without human blood. You cannot say that you've resisted human temptation and are, thus, ritually or magically pure....unless you've actually been human. Gods had to respect the rules of and operate within the constraints of sympathetic magic, back in the day when this stuff was coming up.

That may sound ridiculous. Even to the minds of contemporary secularized believers - but there it is. It continued well after christianity proper entered the scene. There are italian villages famous for burying saints statues heads in the dirt until it rained. Cause that would make them do rain stuff....to get their heads out of the mud....they'd employ their divine or divinely granted powers..... The disposition of the idol or representative ritual object could compel that which it represented or was a token of, and vv. These items, to this day, cry when god is upset about stuff - or so it's contended. The committedly faithful certify them as actual and existent miracles.

[Ferrocyanide]

God, in the overall thrust of the abrahamic fairy tale, is limited.  He had to do it that way, womb and all, for example..because otherwise the magic would not work.  Would not be sufficient.  Human sin cannot be atoned for without human blood.  You cannot say that you've resisted human temptation and are, thus, ritually or magically pure....unless you've actually been human.  Gods had to respect the rules of and operate within the constraints of sympathetic magic, back in the day when this stuff was coming up.

That may sound ridiculous. Even to the minds of contemporary secularized believers - but there it is.  It continued well after christianity proper entered the scene.  There are italian villages famous for burying saints statues heads in the dirt until it rained.  Cause that would make them do rain stuff....to get their heads out of the mud....they'd employ their divine or divinely granted powers.....  The disposition of the idol or representative ritual object could compel that which it represented or was a token of, and vv.  These items, to this day, cry when god is upset about stuff - or so it's contended.  The committedly faithful certify them as actual and existent miracles.

Well, the believer claims (and this appears in the Bible as well) that their god is ultra super powerful and is in total control and also omniscient.
That’s fine if they want to believe that. however, either this god takes his work seriously or it is just entertainment for him.

For example, there is the Cain and Abel story. The jewish god prefers meat and not fruits and vegetables.
So, the jews spend their time, generation after generation killing a goat over an altar?

Another example would be when the jewish god wants to save the jewish people from Egypt.
But if he wants to save, them, then why did they end up there in the first place?
If he wants to save them, then why not just teleport them to the promised land?

It is all a big waste of time. Very inefficient.
It is as if the jewish god likes creating problems and then solving it. His method of solving problems ends up being a big waste of time.

That may sound ridiculous. Even to the minds of contemporary secularized believers - but there it is.

That's what I wonder. Do they realize how ridiculous these stories sound including the entire Jesus story?

For example, Dr Mary Schweitzer claims that science is a totally different field and that it can't prove that there is no god.
Somehow, she still believes these Bible stories.
Sorry, the video is long but some of the comments she makes is comical.

Rebutting Genesis Apologetics - 7th of 7 Alleged Myths Pt III
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9pacJRudWo
By AronRa
Length = 42:48

^^^^^AronRa interviews Dr Mary Schweitzer

[The Grand Nudger]

Believers claim many things, and believers in the abrahamic god have long held it to be super powerful and whatnot - but just like contemporary apologists limit their allegedly omnipotent god to what is logically possible, god botherers have always understood that some things are not possible for their god.

Famously, it doesn't handle iron working human worms very well, just like it can't snap it's fingers and "forgive" everyone. Hell, it failed to best just one lame jew in single combat over a creek.... The god stories..not just the abrahamic but all of them..are ridiculous, sure. That gods have to follow the rules of magic to employ magic is probably the least ridiculous part, though. Answering your question directly, we could assume from the text (running for shits and giggles with the idea that god is existent and jesus was a real boy) that god cared enough to spend his time in a womb because that's what he had to do to make the spell effective.

My opinion? To the extent that believers have abandoned any of these well established constraints on their gods, sourced from their own magic books and traditions, that reflects the fact that the faithful have come to desire more from god than said god ever promised them or would be capable of providing -even on the god stories own grounds-. God is late. God is a fuckup, and their wants/needs have been increasing and compounding since the last time he screwed the pooch and got himself killed. To put a really fine point on it, that dynamic has been causing the faithful to reach out into other traditions and beliefs, hoping to plug the gaps with other religions promises, as a majority. The majority of christians today are intentional heretics to their own self professed faiths. This is a near exact replication of the circumstances that lead to christianity's emergence as a new faith among lapsed or disaffected subsets of the roman world as classical paganism collapsed. Christianity has already given way to "New Age" religion, even amongst christians, and ironically..that new age religion is in large part a resurgence of classical pagan beliefs.

Something like this also happened in the pacific - where a population that was well into the process of christianization abruptly assumed beliefs more in line with their previous faiths in the form of idol construction and worship in return (they hoped) for "cargo". Long story short, theism is a necessarily transactional belief system. When the gods don't hold up their end of the deal, people make new deals with different gods. For a specific example, look no further than the american se (or broadly red areas in general) where historically protestant white cultures are incorporating things like reincarnation, theological race realism, sympathetic magic, "natural cures" and terrestrial authoritarian radicalism into what they mean...when they say "christian". These things speak to their particular and current fears and hopes (and, fwiw, the failures of our society - just as roman society) in ways that hippie jesus simply does not. They want the mystical wargod back, but they'd prefer he not be jewish or otherwise brown this time around.

I also enjoy the whole noma bit. It's a consolation prize. A negotiation between the faithful, having been demonstrably proved wrong in every positive claim, and a society they wish to continue to impose their beliefs upon.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Literarily, they can both be true. There’s no conflict in God asking a question to which he already knows the answer.

Boru

It isn’t a matter of conflict. It is a question of “is it reasonable”. Is there a reasonable reason for what he (the jewish god) is doing.
Most people notice these things and so, I imagine LinuxGal noticed it as well.
And when you notice something, then why not mention it.

Even if some people want to claim with absolute certainty that Genesis is an allegory, it doesn’t change the fact that it makes this highly respected and loved god look silly.
If you want to place your god in a made up story, then at least make him appear respectable. More importantly, give reasonable reasons for why things are the way they are.

The Genesis story is certainly not allegory. It was taken as fact by all except for a handful of people who were wondering why their god didn’t create things in an instant.

But, even if you wish to sweep the Genesis story under the rug, what should we do about Jesus?
The same kind of nonsense appears throughout the Bible.

How does turning yourself into a human and spending 9 months in the womb of a women an efficient use of your time?
Are you telling me he doesn’t care? He doesn’t mind wasting his time?

LinuxGal phrased it to imply a conflict (‘Which one is true?’), which is what I was responding to.

I’m not at all sure the concept of ‘wasted time’ applies to a non-temporal Being. If, as we are told, God exists outside of time, there is no possible way for him to waste it. It would be like having an infinite supply of food, but pacing yourself so you don’t run out.

Boru

[Ferrocyanide]

Famously, it doesn't handle iron working human worms very well, just like it can't snap it's fingers and "forgive" everyone.

You mean this line?

Judges 1:19 KING JAMES VERSION
And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

I suppose they were viewing their world with their religious glasses on.
So, possibly that war was real and the author chose not to write “the lord was not with Judah”. Of course, he could have written it in a dozen different ways but who knows what lead them to that ^^^^ mess.

The jewish god can’t snap his fingers suddenly and forgive everyone because of a very logical reason: the believer combines the reality that he observes with his imagined god.
Just like me, he notices that life is hard, people get sick, people get a tooth ache, their brother suddenly dies of a heart attack at age 30, painkillers are not available during an operation, their 1 y old suddenly dies, etc.

They combine that reality ^^^^^ with this notion that there is a god that loves humans, cares for them and decided to save them using his son Jesus.
As someone has said “It is funny how christians bend themselves backwards to defend their faith”.

Yes, I have encountered some christians (and some hindus) that claim that all religions are correct and that they complement each other.
I took a guess that they are “modern” and they don’t want to tell their fellow man that their “other” religion is false and that they are worshiping false gods and they are going to hell.

But I guess some are explorers and they look into spirituality, budhism, the power of healing crystals, astrology, etc.

This is a near exact replication of the circumstances that lead to christianity's emergence as a new faith among lapsed or disaffected subsets of the roman world as classical paganism collapsed.

Do you mean around 200 to 500 CE period?

The Cargo Cult people? I imagine that they are not technologically, scientifically advanced so they are susceptible to believing in just anything.
So when someone comes via an airplane and delivers stuff that has been mass produced using high performance machines, to them it all looks magical since they have not seen the entire infrastructure behind all that.

For a specific example, look no further than the american se (or broadly red areas in general) where historically protestant white cultures are incorporating things like reincarnation, theological race realism, sympathetic magic, "natural cures" and terrestrial authoritarian radicalism into what they mean...when they say "christian".

I haven’t heard about this case.