Posts: 8711
Threads: 128
Joined: March 1, 2012
Reputation:
54
RE: The Scripture Is False And The Biblical God Is Dead.
January 13, 2023 at 12:40 am
(January 10, 2023 at 4:18 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote: (January 10, 2023 at 12:44 pm)Authari Wrote: Yes I'm sure you're very familiar with panpsychism and you aren't just saying that to get away from responsibility of actually investigating into the matter at hand... the video does in fact establish exactly what I think it does, and as for the rest there really wasn't much there in terms for me to reject, they were just people in denial trying to throw anything they can at the idea in hopes that it will make their view point seem legitimate.
Many of us are well read in philosophy and woo. There is no evidence for Panpsychism.
Proposition: Since "mind" exists in us, it must exist in everything that makes us up, and be a building block of the universe.
Answer: It is an error to believe that properties of a whole must exist in its constituent parts. When an apple is Red, it doesn't mean that the quarks that make it up have a "redness" property. Rather, it is the complex characteristics of electrons in their molecular matrix that reflect different energy photons at different amount. Likewise, "mind" doesn't have to made up of "little minds" in our constituents.
There is something in physics called a phase shift. You know how solid changes to liquid, but you also get phase shifts in physical behavior. Put feedback in a system, and the entirely new behavior is seen. This is the basis for emergent properties.
It is far more likely that "mind" is an emergent property of a system that has specific characteristics, than it is that rocks have some small degree of consciousness. I believe consciousness is a byproduct of a highly evolved brain - one that requires us to have a sense of self and inner dialog for survival. One can marvel at how the universe can produce something that is self-aware, and aware of the universe, but marvel without making stuff up.
Rabbits do not emerge from magic hats. Magicians hide them first.
<insert profound quote here>
Posts: 11342
Threads: 29
Joined: December 8, 2019
Reputation:
14
RE: The Scripture Is False And The Biblical God Is Dead.
January 13, 2023 at 2:05 am
Quote:Rabbits do not emerge from magic hats. Magicians hide them first.
Says the man who believes in literal magic... 
"Change was inevitable"
Nemo sicut deus debet esse!
![[Image: Canada_Flag.jpg?v=1646203843]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=cdn.shopify.com%2Fs%2Ffiles%2F1%2F0630%2F5310%2F3332%2Fproducts%2FCanada_Flag.jpg%3Fv%3D1646203843)
“No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM
Posts: 576
Threads: 0
Joined: October 10, 2018
Reputation:
2
RE: The Scripture Is False And The Biblical God Is Dead.
January 13, 2023 at 6:01 am
(This post was last modified: January 13, 2023 at 6:07 am by Dmitry1983.)
(January 10, 2023 at 4:18 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote: I believe consciousness is a byproduct of a highly evolved brain - one that requires us to have a sense of self and inner dialog for survival. Since p-zombies don't need qualia to survive what is the evolutionary advantage of having subjective experience?
Posts: 46417
Threads: 540
Joined: July 24, 2013
Reputation:
109
RE: The Scripture Is False And The Biblical God Is Dead.
January 13, 2023 at 6:11 am
(January 13, 2023 at 6:01 am)Dmitry1983 Wrote: (January 10, 2023 at 4:18 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote: I believe consciousness is a byproduct of a highly evolved brain - one that requires us to have a sense of self and inner dialog for survival. Since p-zombies don't need qualia to survive what is the evolutionary advantage of having subjective experience?
Since p-zombies are a semantically null thought experiment, what is the point of your post?
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
Posts: 576
Threads: 0
Joined: October 10, 2018
Reputation:
2
RE: The Scripture Is False And The Biblical God Is Dead.
January 13, 2023 at 6:23 am
(This post was last modified: January 13, 2023 at 6:26 am by Dmitry1983.)
(January 13, 2023 at 6:11 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (January 13, 2023 at 6:01 am)Dmitry1983 Wrote: Since p-zombies don't need qualia to survive what is the evolutionary advantage of having subjective experience?
Since p-zombies are a semantically null thought experiment, what is the point of your post?
Boru
What if we include creatures that are similar but not identical to humans atom by atom(i.e. they have slightly different behavior and brains) in the definition of p-zombies?
Posts: 46417
Threads: 540
Joined: July 24, 2013
Reputation:
109
RE: The Scripture Is False And The Biblical God Is Dead.
January 13, 2023 at 6:31 am
(This post was last modified: January 13, 2023 at 6:31 am by BrianSoddingBoru4.)
(January 13, 2023 at 6:23 am)Dmitry1983 Wrote: (January 13, 2023 at 6:11 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Since p-zombies are a semantically null thought experiment, what is the point of your post?
Boru
What if we include creatures that are similar but not identical to humans atom by atom(i.e. they have slightly different behavior and brains) in the definition of p-zombies?
So, you're counting chimpanzees as p-zombies? Doesn't help much.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
Posts: 11342
Threads: 29
Joined: December 8, 2019
Reputation:
14
RE: The Scripture Is False And The Biblical God Is Dead.
January 13, 2023 at 6:33 am
Quote:Since p-zombies don't need qualia to survive what is the evolutionary advantage of having subjective experience?
You might as well ask what use unicorns have for subjective experience...
"Change was inevitable"
Nemo sicut deus debet esse!
“No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM
Posts: 576
Threads: 0
Joined: October 10, 2018
Reputation:
2
RE: The Scripture Is False And The Biblical God Is Dead.
January 13, 2023 at 6:48 am
(January 13, 2023 at 6:31 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (January 13, 2023 at 6:23 am)Dmitry1983 Wrote: What if we include creatures that are similar but not identical to humans atom by atom(i.e. they have slightly different behavior and brains) in the definition of p-zombies?
So, you're counting chimpanzees as p-zombies? Doesn't help much.
Boru
no, I mean different but not different enough to have lower survival value.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergent_evolution
Posts: 11342
Threads: 29
Joined: December 8, 2019
Reputation:
14
RE: The Scripture Is False And The Biblical God Is Dead.
January 13, 2023 at 7:07 am
Quote:no, I mean different but not different enough to have lower survival value.
The evolution of unicorns 
"Change was inevitable"
Nemo sicut deus debet esse!
“No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM
Posts: 576
Threads: 0
Joined: October 10, 2018
Reputation:
2
RE: The Scripture Is False And The Biblical God Is Dead.
January 13, 2023 at 7:39 am
(This post was last modified: January 13, 2023 at 7:44 am by Dmitry1983.)
(January 13, 2023 at 7:07 am)Helios Wrote: Quote:no, I mean different but not different enough to have lower survival value.
The evolution of unicorns
My point is while regular p-zombies are likely impossible unconscious creatures that are similar but not identical to humans seem to be possible and that potentially disproves the theory of evolution at least when it comes to humans.
|
