The Issue of Idolatry in Abrahamic Religions

[Leonardo17]

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

^I’m confused. By your definition, how can the murder of Paty be an act of idolatry? In his murder of Paty, Anzotov was displaying an extreme attachment to what he believed was ‘the power that arranges the movement of galaxies and stars’.

Unless, of course, you mean that we should only have extreme attachment to things like gravity and angular momentum. Which seems kinda weird.

Boru

[The Grand Nudger]

You know one of my pet peeves? When some dipshit theist says things like "if you're a theist" as though their ridiculous beliefs are representative of the entire set, which they never are. Another one, when some fucking magic book worshipper wants to lecture people about idols.

[Leonardo17]

[The Grand Nudger]

It would be more accurate to say that you personally disagree with what has been a long and highly successful tradition. When you say that you wouldn't do it, I believe you. When you say that's not the way..you're lying - not primarily to me, but to yourself. I think it's regrettable that islam has been constructed this way for so long. It's hurt alot of people, mostly muslims.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

[Leonardo17]

[The Grand Nudger]

You probably don't want to associate yourself with any of our muslims.

[Leonardo17]

You probably don't want to associate yourself with any of our muslims.

I think you know the ones I am talking about . And the same works for all theists in general. In fact I was simply emboldened by the fact that, in a very decisive manner, bigots who are entirely focused on some dogmatic interpretation of religion have been losing ground during the past 500 years and will continue to do so in the future. So I have decided that maybe it’s more than time for “us” to be more vocal and start challenging these people.
 
I think I have a moral obligation to do that. See for instance. In the movement of mass protests that followed the terror attacks of Charlie Hebdo in January 2015, people were shouting “God is great and so is the Republic”.
 
Think of it for a minute. “The Republic / The Nation” is great. There is no doubt about this. You are talking about an idea / or an ideal in Plato’s terms (remember the allegory of the cave). So yes an idea is immortal (Remember the movie V for Vendetta – featuring Natalie Protman 2005). I totally agree with that. Bigots would like to have you think that this is idolatry. But no. For me the republic is an ideal. Just like “The Party” (if you happen to be a communist). So you are on a level that is higher than the material plane but still within the area of thought and the human intellect.
 
Now what about God? – In this example “God” seems to be a cosmic persona at best (like Zeus seated on mount Olympus). And yes, it’s exactly the same thing. You are in the realm of tought and intellect or the world of ideas / ideals as Plato would define it.    
 
For me, talking about God in that way, which is defined in the spiritual literature as “The Force that is the cause and origin of all creation (meaning the entire universe)” is idolatry pure and simple.
 
I don’t know if this is very complicated to the reader For me this is nonsense. I am not saying that people are wrong when they shout “God is great and so is the Republic”. I am saying that those “believers” or “your Muslims” if you like have got it all wrong. And that’s my humble opinion.
 
As I said before, if you are limited in your thinking, than you have to be humble. Meaning you don’t preach to other people, you don’t impose nothing on other people, you don’t try to force other people… More elderly people had that. Meaning they had their belief systems but they were not so vocal about people attacking their fate or anything like that. So someone or something has to draw the line with the newer generation of bigots.
 
And that’s also happening everywhere. Look at Israel for instance. It’s a totally different culture than mine but what is according to you the reason why orthodox Jews are trying to end democracy in that geography even although it’s a completely different culture and geography?
 
My explanation is this: The Ego of a spiritual seeker is as strong as the ego of any other mundane person. And bigotry is a sign of a deep ego consciousness. So people who are “spiritual” must work on themselves rather than others.
 
But that’s my own spiritual approach. And you may share your Materialistic / Newtonian approach if you like

[The Grand Nudger]

The republic does become an idol for some people, where nationalistic paraphernalia gains function beyond it's practical or aesthetic use and becomes a focus for worship and signaling. I wouldn't spend to much time flirting with the idea that god is just an idea in the company of islamists. Not because I think it has no merit - I think that's exactly what gods are and what gives theistic religions the ability to manifest consequences in reality. But for reasons of murder. Combine those two, national and religious idols - and you get mujahideen. Every nation and every religion has them. It's not a bug, it's a feature. It gives them a chip to bargain with both within their societies and outside of their societies. Whether that comes in the form of intersectional (para)military support, or in dissident action to establish a perpetual minority rule under threat of death or damage to infrastructure.

That leads me handily into how I would explain any orthodox attempt to end democracy. An abrahamic fundamentalist doesn't believe in democracy from the word go. That's not how they think the world works, or even should work. God isn't just an idea, he's The Man..and he makes The Rules...and this is the right and proper way to organize society. The developed world is leaning into nationalism and authoritarianism in general - even outside of the religiously concerned™. That zionists might be produced in these circumstances who are willing to both strangle democracy in their own society and utterly disenfranchise..say..palestinians....is like a clock ticking from one second to the next.

FWIW - you don't seem, to me, like you're in the same zipcode. Your own magic book idolatry is probably just a latent effect of an islamic upbringing. Background noise - not doing much of anything but making you seem confused and propagandized to an outsider.