Debunk the divine origin

[LinuxGal]

The implication is that, if god got something -wrong- then it must not come from god.  You're not disproving anything with that, you're accepting their framing... and it's nutball framing.

A forger writes a "prophecy" that claims to have been written by one Daniel three or four centuries before Antiochus IV Epiphanes and is eerily accurate about the details of Levantine history, including the desecration of the temple...all the way up to a certain point near the of his reign when it goes wildly astray. The obvious take is that it was really written during that king's reign before the battle he was supposed to win but didn't.  And the promised direct rule of God never came.  Did anyone ever discard the thing as a false prophecy?  No!  They extended it, and said the Romans would desecrate the temple, and so they did, and still the promised direct rule of God never came.  On and on, until our own time, and Evangelicals insist the temple will be rebuilt so it can be desecrated by the antichrist, who by turns was Jimmy Carter, then it was Bill Clinton, then Barack Obama, and now is Joe Biden.  It's nutball framing in the sense that nothing, NOTHING can ever make it go away, because it's the word of God and God is never wrong.

[The Grand Nudger]

The obvious question for us being why we would play along? Here again, though, we don't actually think that "forgers" wrote "prophecies" like this. We think that then contemporaneous authors wrote this stuff and later cultists insisted it was fortune telling.

This is a product of the pagan influence in proto and orthodox christianity's establishment. Oracles and esp were -their- thing. They weren't going to sign up to some cut rate religion without those necessary utilities.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

1. The Bible predicts Egypt will lie uninhabited for 40 years (Ezekiel 29:12): "And I will make the land of Egypt desolate in the midst of the countries that are desolate, and her cities among the cities that are laid waste shall be desolate forty years: and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, and will disperse them through the countries."

2. The Bible predicts Jesus will come without warning (1 Thessalonians 5:2): "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."

3. The prophecy of Egypt lying empty for forty years remains unfulfilled. 

4. If Ezekiel's prophecy of Egypt's comeuppance is set aside in light of Paul's prophecy of immanence, then Ezekiel is a false prophet.

5. If Egypt begins to lie uninhabited. then Jesus cannot come for at least the next forty years, which serves as a warning and makes Paul a false prophet.

These prophecies are absolutely true, accurate, and fulfilled. Satan is tricking you into thinking otherwise.

Boru

[The Grand Nudger]

To them, a fulfilled prophecy was a failed prophecy. Read every one of them like "If we/you don't start acting right right now gods gonna cut you down just like he did those poor fucks". Well...if god cut them down...the messenger botched the job.

[Silver]

It is not my responsibility to debunk fairy tales, but for the believer to prove with evidence that it holds any rational sway in reality.

[The Grand Nudger]

Exactly. First, they need to formulate a coherent (or as coherent as possible) a claim that they actually believe in and will follow through to the end for good or ill, before there's any point in anyone trying to respond to it.

If they say nutter shit there's actually no logically coherent response or criticism that can come from accepting illogical premises to argue against them. The skeptical response to nutbar framing assuming the nutbar framing will be nutbar shit itself - as a consequence of simple mechanical facts of the system being used to assess the claim. Thus, the skeptical response will be meaningfully untrue and illogical, itself. Ala "this was wrong so it didn't come from god" It -cannot- be proven, logically, that because something was wrong it wasn't of divine origin. It's right there in the setup, they're just not the same question. Meanwhile, you could certainly prove that a given story wasn't of divine origin right or wrong by demonstrating it's actual origin. TLDR version, anyone who plays along with cultists has already lost.

[Bucky Ball]

No one in Hebrew culture claimed divine origin. It's a Christian pastime, (waste of time). 

Oxford University :
"Christian readers typically misunderstand prophecy in the Bible because they assume that its primary intent is to foretell the future. This chapter shows that the intent of the genre of prophecy in the Hebrew Bible was not primarily to predict the future—certainly not hundreds of years in advance—but rather to address specific social, political, and religious circumstances in ancient Israel and Judah. This means that there is no prediction of Christ in the Hebrew Bible. The writers of the New Testament and later Christian literature reinterpreted or reapplied the Hebrew prophecies.
https://academic.oup.com/book/1920/chapt...m=fulltext

Deuteronomy 18:10-11
"Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft,
or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead."

Prophesy is not "prediction". The role of a prophet was to be a "mouthpiece" from the god to the people of their own time.
They were normally written in the form of a "warning". 
If the warning came true, it was a FAILED prophecy, as the people failed to heed the warning. If the people listened to the warning, the bad event did not come true, and the prophecy (warning) succeeded. That's pretty much the opposite of the Hollywood notion of prophesy. 

Leviticus forbade fortune telling and divination, so we know it was an abomination to even think in these terms for many/most centuries in Hebrew culture. However, with the rise of Apocalypticism, around the turn of the millennium, this changed somewhat, and is evidenced in many Christian writings, including the gospels, as they adopted the notions absent in ancient Israel, but coming into popular view with the Essenes. In terms of Hebrew culture, and the "telling of or prediction of" the future, was unknown, and forbidden, and not at ALL a view of the major prophets themselves. However in the the new view, certain "hidden meanings" or "pesherim" began to be looked for, in the practice of Midrash. The name for this is called "pesher", (or seeking a "hidden meaning"), which was not even known to the original speaker/writer, but only "revealed" later to certain believers. Originally, the (plural) "pesherim" were only fully revealed to the Son of Righteousness, (the leader of the Essenes), and the idea was first found and fully understood after scholars read the Dead Sea scrolls, and was a sub category of "Midrash"

Apocalypticism, around the turn of the millennium, this changed somewhat, and is evidenced in many Christian writings, including the gospels, as they adopted the notions absent in ancient Israel, but coming into popular view with the Essenes. In terms of Hebrew culture, and the "telling of or prediction of" the future, was unknown, and forbidden, and not at ALL a view of the major prophets themselves. However in the the new view, certain "hidden meanings" or "pesherim" began to be looked for, in the practice of Midrash. The name for this is called "pesher", (or seeking a "hidden meaning"), which was not even known to the original speaker/writer, but only "revealed" later
to certain believers. Originally, the (plural) "pesherim" were only fully revealed to the Son of Righteousness, (the leader of the Essenes), and the idea was first found and fully understood after scholars read the Dead Sea scrolls, and was a sub category of "Midrash", (or study of the texts).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pesher
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midrash

[LinuxGal]

No one in Hebrew culture claimed divine origin. It's a Christian pastime, (waste of time).

Sure.
Ezekiel 29:1-2 In the tenth year, in the tenth month, in the twelfth day of the month, the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, "Son of man, set thy face against Pharaoh king of Egypt, and prophesy against him, and against all Egypt..."

[Bucky Ball]

No one in Hebrew culture claimed divine origin. It's a Christian pastime, (waste of time).

Sure.
Ezekiel 29:1-2 In the tenth year, in the tenth month, in the twelfth day of the month, the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, "Son of man, set thy face against Pharaoh king of Egypt, and prophesy against him, and against all Egypt..."

Wrong. 
It's the "word" according to that prophet's understanding. The "word" is not god in that culture.
But feel free to continue your ignorant fake understanding of what prophesy was. You obviously never took Biblical Studies 101.
They learn this the first week.

You're using the Bible to prove the Bible again.
Scholars who actually have studied the culture understand it and your ignorant thread demonstrates you actually know nothing about their culture.

Jeremiah 18:5-10. This passage explains that God reserves the possibility to change course even after the prophet who speaks on God’s behalf predicts blessing or cursing.

"Then the word of the LORD came to me: Can I not do with you, O house of Israel, just as this potter has done? says the LORD. Just like the clay in the potter’s hand, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel. At one moment I may declare concerning a nation or a kingdom, that I will pluck up and break down and destroy it, but if that nation, concerning which I have spoken, turns from its evil, I will change my mind about the disaster that I intended to bring on it. And at another moment I may declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it, but if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will change my mind about the good that I had intended to do to it.

[LinuxGal]

Sure.
Ezekiel 29:1-2 In the tenth year, in the tenth month, in the twelfth day of the month, the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, "Son of man, set thy face against Pharaoh king of Egypt, and prophesy against him, and against all Egypt..."

Scholars who actually have studied the culture understand it and your ignorant thread demonstrates you actually know nothing about their culture.

Is it happens the thread is directed against Christian Bible inerrantists, as suggested by the inclusion of a passage in a Pauline epistle as the other horn of the dilemma. When I go after the Tanakh alone I run it by the Israeli fellow on Twitter/Mastodon who runs http://thenonapologist.com/