University Protests against the Israeli Incursion into Palestine

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

US Halts Arms Shipment To Israel

The Biden administration last week put a hold on a shipment of U.S.-made ammunition to Israel, two Israeli officials told Axios.
Why it matters: It is the first time since the Oct. 7 attack that the U.S. has stopped a weapons shipment intended for the Israeli military. 

• The incident raised serious concerns inside the Israeli government and sent officials scrambling to understand why the shipment was held,  Israeli officials said.
  

Boru

[Leonardo17]

The way some Media sources are talking about these University protests is also a bit concerning. Here is a quote from The Telegraph:
 
It call the peaceful protesters “a pack of brainwashed, Jew-hating apologists for terrorism.”
 
https://www.yahoo.com/news/anti-israel-s...00415.html
 
The article is critical of the BBC, but many commentators in many news outlets (like France 24) are either critical and/or neutral about this issue. I think that’s the dark side of the Western Media as explained in the books of Noam Chomsky.
 
On Iraq and Afghanistan:
 

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Saddam’s regime was like a buffer zone that helped to control Iran. A bit like Kaddafi was the only person able to keep Libya together. And on Afghanistan: Many Western troops left their lives there, all of it to give the country back to the Taliban 20 years later.
 
Especially on the latest: I was hoping for something like south-Korea or post WWII Japan in both of these countries. In Iraq the elections are being held between Sunnite political Islamists and Iran backed political Islamists.
 
G.W. Bush had said that the middle-east would look better once this operation is over. Well, it doesn’t. The only difference here is that the Taliban had only Russian weapons in the 00’s. Now it has Hummers and other vehicles abandoned by the US and its allies.
 

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Michael Moore has nice documentaries on these issues. I think there are some people over there who are making huge amounts of money from all of these wars.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Michael Moore has nice documentaries on these issues. I think there are some people over there who are making huge amounts of money from all of these wars.

Of course the defense industry makes enormous sums of money when we're at war, Capt Obvious. That isn't evidence they caused it, any more than a spike in bottled-water sales after a hurricane means that the storm was caused by Aquafina.

Your claim that our arms industry caused the invasion of Afghanistan is factually incorrect. All this other crap is simply red-herring material so that you can avoid writing, "Sorry, I misspoke."

[Nanny]

Undergraduates will complete their semesters in a week's time and go wherever they go. A 20 year old is free to try on as many personas, causes, acts as they want. Some of these choices have untoward consequences. This is a life lesson for these kids.

My cynical old carcass knew on October 7, 2023 that if Hamas killed 1000 Israelis, Israel would level Gaza. Hamas, of course, welcomed this while wagging fingers at Israel. It's a cycle we've seen before, and a symptom of old rich men running governments.

My cynical old carcass also chooses not to pay close attention to this conflict as both belligerents are awful.

[Belacqua]

The way some Media sources are talking about these University protests is also a bit concerning. Here is a quote from The Telegraph:[/size]
 
It call the peaceful protesters “a pack of brainwashed, Jew-hating apologists for terrorism.”
 

It's very sad, but not surprising, that the protestors are being accused in this way. Of course there is real antisemitism in the world, but the fact that the current protests are in response to specific actions -- not simply Jewishness -- should be completely obvious. And of course there are plenty of Jews among the protestors. Equating violent Zionism with Jewishness is itself antisemitic. 

I saw a cringe-making video earlier today -- somebody stopped Richard Dawkins in a lobby before or after a speech, and asked him what he thought of the protestors. He said they were obviously antisemitic. When the interviewer said don't you think maybe they oppose the bombing of children, Dawkins suddenly realized that the object in front of him was a smart phone, and claimed he had a "no-recording policy." And ran away. 

That's just disgusting. 

 
On Iraq and Afghanistan: 

 
Saddam’s regime was like a buffer zone that helped to control Iran. A bit like Kaddafi was the only person able to keep Libya together. And on Afghanistan: Many Western troops left their lives there, all of it to give the country back to the Taliban 20 years later. 
 
Especially on the latest: I was hoping for something like south-Korea or post WWII Japan in both of these countries. In Iraq the elections are being held between Sunnite political Islamists and Iran backed political Islamists.
 
G.W. Bush had said that the middle-east would look better once this operation is over. Well, it doesn’t. The only difference here is that the Taliban had only Russian weapons in the 00’s. Now it has Hummers and other vehicles abandoned by the US and its allies.
 

I don't quite know how Americans handle the cognitive dissonance here. They lost big time in Afghanistan. They lost big time in Iraq. They ruined Libya. With millions of lives ruined, and untold trillions of dollars wasted, it's just clear as can be that they've made the world far worse. 

Yet apparently no one will be held responsible. 

I think there are some people over there who are making huge amounts of money from all of these wars.

Sometimes people talk as if the weapons industry people are just storekeepers, who sit at the counter and wait for orders to come in. Hey, if there's a war, they don't mind a bit. 

This completely ignores the constant revolving door policy in Washington. The current Secretary of Defense, for example, is on the board of Raytheon --- one of the companies that benefits most from more war. When the policy-makers are also the profit-makers, it shouldn't be surprising that endless war is policy.

[The Grand Nudger]

Alot of the folks at the protest were raging antisemites and racists in general, just not the protesters, as it turns out. The counter-protesters, who assaulted the protesters for an hour and a half in one instance while the cops watched. The cops, going for shades of uvalde, said they did nothing because their force was too small....but boy oh boy did they bust heads once they got the numbers. No, not counter-protester heads, sillies, those are their guys.

Mississippi goddamn.

[Thumpalumpacus]

President Biden’s move to pause a shipment of heavy bombs to Israel has drawn the fury of Republicans, further polarizing U.S. efforts to deter Israel from launching a bloody campaign in southern Gaza.

The U.S. held back some 3,500 bombs that had already been approved for Israel as the White House is growing increasingly frustrated with the civilian toll in Gaza and is concerned about a looming Israeli full-scale invasion of Rafah, a southern city where more than a million Palestinians are sheltering.

But the decision to hold back weapons shipments is among the most significant actions that Biden has taken to assert U.S. leverage amid Israel’s war in Gaza. While progressives have long called for such weapons restrictions, Republicans responded to the move with blistering statements attacking Biden.

House Foreign Affairs Committee Chair Rep. Michael McCaul (R-Texas) and House Armed Services Chair Rep. Mike Rogers (R-Ala.) said in a joint statement Wednesday they were “appalled that the administration paused crucial arms shipments to Israel,” accusing Biden of weakening Israeli security.

“Moreover, this disastrous policy decision was undertaken in secret and deliberately hidden from Congress and the American people,” they said. “At a time when Israel continues to negotiate in good faith to secure the release of hostages, including American citizens, the administration’s shortsighted, strategic error calls into question its ‘unshakeable commitment’ as an ally. “

Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin also came under questioning from Republicans when he testified in front of the Senate Appropriations Committee on Wednesday morning.

“Does this not send the wrong message to our ally Israel and embolden Iran and Iranian-backed groups?” said Sen. Jerry Moran (R-Kan.). “We should not be signaling to [our] enemies that our support is conditional.”

Austin responded that the U.S. commitment to Israel’s security remains “ironclad” and the White House has provided billions of dollars to the country.

“But that said, we are currently reviewing some near-term security shipments in the context of unfolding events in Rafah,” Austin said. “We haven’t made any decisions. We did pause as we reevaluated some of the security assistance that we are providing.”

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/46525...bs-israel/

[Leonardo17]

Michael Moore has nice documentaries on these issues. I think there are some people over there who are making huge amounts of money from all of these wars.

Of course the defense industry makes enormous sums of money when we're at war, Capt Obvious. That isn't evidence they caused it, any more than a spike in bottled-water sales after a hurricane means that the storm was caused by Aquafina.

Your claim that our arms industry caused the invasion of Afghanistan is factually incorrect. All this other crap is simply red-herring material so that you can avoid writing, "Sorry, I misspoke."

No, everything I said on this issue was intentional.
 
I’m going to quote President Eisenhower’s televised farewell address from January 1961. Here is what he says:
 
Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense. We have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security alone more than the net income of all United States corporations.
 
Now this conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence—economic, political, even spiritual—is felt in every city, every Statehouse, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet, we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources, and livelihood are all involved. So is the very structure of our society.
 
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.[color=var(--color-progressive,#36c)][1][/color]
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisenhower...ll_address
 
So although I have no direct evidence to support it, I believe this military industrial complex had some influence in the decision to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. Yes, technically it was a mistake made by G.W. Bush. But who is it that made him make those mistakes?
 
I became even more convinced of that with the US withdrawal from Afghanistan in 2020 and all the senseless event that happened after that. Did 3700 soldiers die + 20,000 become injured in Afghanistan to take Afghanistan from the Taliban in 2001 and then give it back to them in a silver plate in 2020?
 
It’s only my opinion of course: I say it is the Military Industrial complex. It’s 2,5 trillion Dollars (10 time the annual military budget of China).
 
 

 

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I was critical of “second class Media outlets” in the thread on the war in Ukraine. By “Second class” I don’t mean “small” or “local” Media outlets.
 
Here is a very nice account on the situation at the DePaul University in Chicago:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/depaul-studen...52327.html
 
On the other hand you may check “The Telegraph” website for all sorts of unfounded accusations of pro-Palestine protesters in the US and in other countries.
 
(Just a small note on the issue)

[Thumpalumpacus]

[...]

The problem you're having is the word "cause". You needn't lecture about my own country's history; it's been a lifetime study of mine. What you need to do is ensure you're using the correct word. "Cause" isn't it.

That said, I can see you're beholden to your view and will not admit error, so this conversation is over. At least now I know you're not worth conversing.

[The Grand Nudger]

Iraq and afghanistan were not wars for profit, or even mistakes. Afghanistan was pretty straight-forward. The taliban refused to give up a terrorist. That wasn't believed by Jrs advisors to be a strong enough message to the rest of the world, though, so we leveled iraq as a demonstration. That's the whole bit, and we don't have to wonder because we have the architects of both wars own words on the matter.

As far as the pullout.... Trump hoped to lay a shit sandwich on bidens plate, to that end he bypassed the actual government of afghanistan and directly negotiated with the taliban. Biden took the opportunity to get out, which was pretty much always going to be messy.

See, the truth is even worse than lazy anti-western tropes.