Fentanyl topic split off election thread.

[europeanatheist]

Even a broken clock will tell you the right time twice a day
Indeed RFK is a poor retard (nothing to do with the worm, just not the smartest boy in class), but as European I can definitely state that a lot is wrong on the approach to health in US.
You have such a long list of food additives that are forbidden in the EU that I wonder why is that (I know why, the bog food lobby).
Moreover, I am impressed by the Fentanyl: you got a lot of Fentanyl addicted that just started taking it as painkiller for things here in the EU you receive ibuprofen or way milder solutions.
I remember a friend of me when she moved in the US, fellow scientist, with her boyfriend also scientist (mathematician, not pharmaceutical chemist like her). He got his ligament broken and reconstructed, in the hospital he got Fentanyl as painkiller for the surgery and she stopped it and prevented him for taking it, giving instead high dosage Ibuprofen. Result? Very little pain for 3 days and then pain gone with zero chance of becoming Fentanyl addicted. Look now in your circle (for the ones of you in the US): how many slipped in Fentanyl addiction for uses of Fentanyl that could have been substituted with other drugs?
And this is just one small example, I can go on for hours with examples on differences where on "big food" and "big pharma" we fade better as EU (conversely in many other fields we fade way worst than US).

[arewethereyet]

Even a broken clock will tell you the right time twice a day
Indeed RFK is a poor retard (nothing to do with the worm, just not the smartest boy in class), but as European I can definitely state that a lot is wrong on the approach to health in US.
You have such a long list of food additives that are forbidden in the EU that I wonder why is that (I know why, the bog food lobby).
Moreover, I am impressed by the Fentanyl: you got a lot of Fentanyl addicted that just started taking it as painkiller for things here in the EU you receive ibuprofen or way milder solutions.
I remember a friend of me when she moved in the US, fellow scientist, with her boyfriend also scientist (mathematician, not pharmaceutical chemist like her). He got his ligament broken and reconstructed, in the hospital he got Fentanyl as painkiller for the surgery and she stopped it and prevented him for taking it, giving instead high dosage Ibuprofen. Result? Very little pain for 3 days and then pain gone with zero chance of becoming Fentanyl addicted. Look now in your circle (for the ones of you in the US): how many slipped in Fentanyl addiction for uses of Fentanyl that could have been substituted with other drugs?
And this is just one small example, I can go on for hours with examples on differences where on "big food" and "big pharma" we fade better as EU (conversely in many other fields we fade way worst than US).

Not sure where you get your info.  I was given Fentanyl when I had heart surgery...one dose, one time.

I don't know of anyone walking around with a prescription.  

The problem with Fentanyl is that it's being used as a street drug or added to other drugs.  It's so deadly that overdose is common as it doesn't take much.  A few years ago, they clamped down on pain killers to the point that you were lucky to get anything regardless of how bad you needed some relief.  It's easing up but still closely monitored as far as prescriptions go.

And, as and FYI,  the word "retard" is generally not acceptable.  

Try harder.

[europeanatheist]

I know a couple of things about Fentanyl, its market and prescription as well as black market due to my studying and I can study epidemiology numbers quite well.
Anyway, the approach to diseases is waaaay different between US and EU. We tend to treat as average more intervening on the lifestyle, whereas in the US the approach is more "pillstyle", that means people try to fix everything with a pill. As example: prediabetic: in the EU we just get a prescription form the doctor "do not sit too long on the couch, eat less calories, cut sugars and ulpraprocessed food, walk twice a day for more than 30 minutes" and in 90% of the cases the "prediabetic" is resolved to "zerodiabetic", conversely in the US you get drugs
It is a different combined approach, we try to prevent whereas you try more to cure

[The Grand Nudger]

I can go on for hours with examples on differences where on "big food" and "big pharma" we fade better as EU (conversely in many other fields we fade way worst than US).

Dooo iiiit.  IMO, the regulation regime of the eu and the production regime of the us would be a great combo.  Shame we can't easily pick and choose this stuff.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I can go on for hours with examples on differences where on "big food" and "big pharma" we fade better as EU (conversely in many other fields we fade way worst than US).

Dooo iiiit.

In an appropriate thread, damn it.

[arewethereyet]

I know a couple of things about Fentanyl, its market and prescription as well as black market due to my studying and I can study epidemiology numbers quite well.
Anyway, the approach to diseases is waaaay different between US and EU. We tend to treat as average more intervening on the lifestyle, whereas in the US the approach is more "pillstyle", that means people try to fix everything with a pill. As example: prediabetic: in the EU we just get a prescription form the doctor "do not sit too long on the couch, eat less calories, cut sugars and ulpraprocessed food, walk twice a day for more than 30 minutes" and in 90% of the cases the "prediabetic" is resolved to "zerodiabetic", conversely in the US you get drugs
It is a different combined approach, we try to prevent whereas you try more to cure

How often have you sought medical care in the US?

[Deesse23]

Moreover, I am impressed by the Fentanyl: you got a lot of Fentanyl addicted that just started taking it as painkiller for things here in the EU you receive ibuprofen or way milder solutions.
I remember a friend of me when she moved in the US, fellow scientist, with her boyfriend also scientist (mathematician, not pharmaceutical chemist like her). He got his ligament broken and reconstructed, in the hospital he got Fentanyl as painkiller for the surgery and she stopped it and prevented him for taking it, giving instead high dosage Ibuprofen. Result? Very little pain for 3 days and then pain gone with zero chance of becoming Fentanyl addicted. Look now in your circle (for the ones of you in the US): how many slipped in Fentanyl addiction for uses of Fentanyl that could have been substituted with other drugs?
And this is just one small example, I can go on for hours with examples on differences where on "big food" and "big pharma" we fade better as EU (conversely in many other fields we fade way worst than US).

Thats not entirely correct. You get Fentanyl as well in EU, for strong and very strong pain that is. Not for tooth aches or other tings that are manageable without opioids. My neighbor has cancer, got surgery, and was put, for quite some time on Fentanyl. He showed me his patch.

[Silver]

Never had it.

[Belacqua]

Even a broken clock will tell you the right time twice a day
Indeed RFK is a poor retard (nothing to do with the worm, just not the smartest boy in class), but as European I can definitely state that a lot is wrong on the approach to health in US.
You have such a long list of food additives that are forbidden in the EU that I wonder why is that (I know why, the bog food lobby).
Moreover, I am impressed by the Fentanyl: you got a lot of Fentanyl addicted that just started taking it as painkiller for things here in the EU you receive ibuprofen or way milder solutions.
I remember a friend of me when she moved in the US, fellow scientist, with her boyfriend also scientist (mathematician, not pharmaceutical chemist like her). He got his ligament broken and reconstructed, in the hospital he got Fentanyl as painkiller for the surgery and she stopped it and prevented him for taking it, giving instead high dosage Ibuprofen. Result? Very little pain for 3 days and then pain gone with zero chance of becoming Fentanyl addicted. Look now in your circle (for the ones of you in the US): how many slipped in Fentanyl addiction for uses of Fentanyl that could have been substituted with other drugs?
And this is just one small example, I can go on for hours with examples on differences where on "big food" and "big pharma" we fade better as EU (conversely in many other fields we fade way worst than US).

These are good points, and I think it's instructive to compare health systems from different parts of the world. 

To me, it's a sign of America's serious malfunctioning, that a necessary and serious program of health care reform has to get tied to a kooky and VERY problematic political campaign. 

I have no doubt that a lot of government regulations and guidelines should be seriously reviewed by disinterested top-level scientists. Everybody knows that when the government makes these rules, they are more swayed by lobbyists and powerful money groups than by doctors. 

Here is another missed opportunity for the Dems. If they could make this a front-and-center feature of their own campaign,  but do it with a panel of white-coat experts, provenly unpaid by lobbyists and clearly not conspiracy theorists, a lot of people would vote for that. Like have them give press conferences with science reporters, not go on Joe Rogan. Or if they go on Joe Rogan, they could very calmly explain what's science and what's hysteria. 

The trouble is that government-connected scientists (e.g. Fauci) have lost credibility. And credible scientists will be suppressed if they happen to disagree with the big money people. 

Remember when Democrats used to dangle shiny objects in front of us to get our votes? Health care! Free college! Peace! They don't seem to do that any more. If Harris has any selling points, the only one I've heard of so far is Not Trump. 

I don't have any experience with Fentanyl, but I did know a Practice Nurse (like an almost-doctor who served a small town in Kansas; she could do just about everything except write prescriptions, which she got by fax from a doc in a nearby city). She fell off her horse and got meds, and despite being so knowledgable ended up addicted to Oxycontin. It was marketed as safe and non-addictive by the manufacturers (the evil Sackler family) but it certainly wasn't safe and non-addictive. 

Here in Japan strong pain-killers are also very strictly controlled. So far I have been fortunate [frantically knocking wood] and not needed any. Although when I did the thing where they put the tube down your throat to take pictures of your stomach I got some kind of relaxant or tranquilizer or something. For about an hour after the procedure I thought the acoustic ceiling tiles in the waiting room were the most beautiful things I had ever seen, and I was reluctant to leave them. Afterward I knew that if that pill was available on the street I would be sorely tempted to lay in a supply.

[Angrboda]

Different people respond to painkillers differently. The people who make broad generalizations about it are trying to sell you something.