Is this Simply Going to go on Forever?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

@Leonardo17

I don’t know a lot about Zionism. Logically it is true that Israel should not have been established there some 2000 years after the Roman Emperor Titus forced the Jews into exile and renamed the area from Judea to Palestine. It’s just a lot of time to come back and claim something. 
 
Muslims have nothing but land with all sorts of resources at their disposal. I believe that Israel decided to sit there quietly, no one would ever bother to mess with them because all Arab countries have all sorts of problems they need urgent resolution already. People forget how small these geographic areas are.

What a charming thought. Completely wrong, but…charming.

Most of the Arab world thinks Israel has no right to exist. This belief is not situational or conditional - it is existential. They view an Israel that ‘would sit there quietly’ as no different than an Israel that butchers and starves Gazans. It isn’t what Israel does so much as the fact that Israel is.

Boru

[Rev. Rye]

If milosevic forces were bombed then why netanyahu ones should be treated differently?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_we...and_Israel

[Ivan Denisovich]

Milosevich was a butcher. And back in those days Europe had less self-awareness than today. So they were simply watching until Mr. Clinton finally decided to make a move.
 
I’m not a Netanyahu specialist but the Hamas still came to his country murdering people for fun and shooting everything with cameras. And things are moving in Israel too.
 
The fact that a lot of people somehow elected someone does not mean that the ordinary citizens (those with minimal mental faculties) support these leaders and their actions (believe me I know).

And netanyahu and his criminal regime aren't butchers? It's time to stop being willfully blind dude when even israeli human rights organizations say that israel is committing genocide.

Yes, yes bad Hamas* came to totally innocent israel and started killing just because. Fact that israel changed gaza into concentration camp have nothing to do with it as it is totally unheard in world history that occupied fight with occupant  

 

So this is a messed up situation as well. So again: I don’t know

You don't know? No, you simply lack anything approaching moral courage, even the minimal amount of it needed to condemn genocidal regime on tiny internet forum.

*I know that Hamas is guilty of many things as ICC alleged but in this confrontation it is not Hamas that is bad guy.

[Ivan Denisovich]

If milosevic forces were bombed then why netanyahu ones should be treated differently?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_we...and_Israel

It might be but I think that indifference about Palestinians and falling for israel propaganda also play a big role in it.

[Leonardo17]

Brian Boru:
 
I don’t want to go there because that’s something that makes the solution impossible to resolve. Many Arab countries (Saudi Arabia, the Gulf States, Egypt, Morocco etc.) are willing to normalize their relations with Israel
1) Because they don’t care about Palestinians that much
2) For economic reasons.
 
And they are not wrong about Israel either. At the end of the day it’s an artificial state that was created (mostly) to relieve the West from its feeling of guilt after the holocaust.
 
So I agree with all of that but we still need to find a way so that Gazans are not murdered on a daily basis anymore.
 
Ivan Denisovich:
 
Here are protests from as far as Mexico:
 
https://www.yahoo.com/news/videos/thousa...28814.html
 
Everyone is unhappy with Israel. Israeli are unhappy with Israel. If you are an Israeli man you have to serve in the IDF that is currently fighting in five different fronts. Many are simply deserting. If it stays on this path, nobody will even want to live in Israel.
 
+ Hamas is a creation of the CIA and the Mossad to silence secular Palestinian resistance completely.
 
- No I mean: It’s complicated. “Bad Bad Israel” is not a solution either. See every nation on earth is guilty of some sort of mishandling of some other population. So these right wing Israeli will probably tell you that “they are trying to build a nation”.
 
And yes you are right. Sometimes you need brutal force to stop brutal force.
 
Let me give you an example: in 1961 Cyprus became an independent country and tension between Greek and Turks began to rise. Then there was a military coup in Greece in 1967 and the Greek decided it was time to take all of Cyprus. So what happened is the Turkish republic had to intervene in 1973 to stop the genocide (or ethnic cleansing of all the Turks / Muslims on the island). And since then no one recognized the newly founded Turkish Republic of North Cyprus. Some British Newspapers even called us “Barbarians” (for not letting the Greek Junta murder all the Turks on the Island).
 
So sad but true. That’s the world we are living in. So yes. You are right in principle. But as I said. All that the US needs to do is to stop sending weapons and ammunition. Then things may change for the better.

[Ivan Denisovich]

Everyone is unhappy with Israel. Israeli are unhappy with Israel. If you are an Israeli man you have to serve in the IDF that is currently fighting in five different fronts. Many are simply deserting. If it stays on this path, nobody will even want to live in Israel.

Everyone are so unhappy with israel that they... offered some bland condemnations. This criminal regime is neither embargoed nor bombed so this alleged unhappiness is merely politicians trying to salvage something of their image in face of public changing it's opinion about israel and its crimes.
 

- No I mean: It’s complicated. “Bad Bad Israel” is not a solution either. See every nation on earth is guilty of some sort of mishandling of some other population. So these right wing Israeli will probably tell you that “they are trying to build a nation”.

It's not complicated. It is simply a criminal regime that is committing genocide. Sure they use propaganda to mask it, just like any other murderous regime did but there is nothing complicated in it. It's just western hypocrisy that prevent this problem from being solved.

I have no fucking idea why you refuse to recognize israel culpability and try to water it down with bullshit about mishandling. No one forced them to commit genocide. State of israel chose to do it just like nazis did and exactly like nazis they lie about what they do (though they're far more sophisticated). It's simple as that - israel is murderous regime, pissing on UN directives and in process of committing genocide. israel opponents aren't angels but occupied have every right to fight occupation force.

Here is what Doctors Without Borders say on the subject:

Over the past 21 months, Israeli authorities have been responsible for mass killings, indiscriminate attacks, forced displacement, repeated failure to protect civilians, the deliberate destruction of homes and vital infrastructure, and the weaponisation of hunger in what amounts to collective punishment.

There have been multiple and well-documented dehumanising statements by Israeli officials calling for the annihilation of the population, or their transfer out of the Strip. The only reasonable inference is that the intention is to erase the Palestinian people from Gaza. This is why we believe that a genocide is taking place.

It's not a fucking mishandling of some other population.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

@Leonardo17 

I don’t want to go there because that’s something that makes the solution impossible to resolve.

 
The situation IS impossible to resolve, for the reasons stated.

Many Arab countries (Saudi Arabia, the Gulf States, Egypt, Morocco etc.) are willing to normalize their relations with Israel
1) Because they don’t care about Palestinians that much
2) For economic reasons.

In the jargon of international politics, the technical term for that is 'whoring'. There are a total of five Arab nations that have normalized relations with the Israeli butcher. Out of fifty.

And they are not wrong about Israel either. At the end of the day it’s an artificial state that was created (mostly) to relieve the West from its feeling of guilt after the holocaust.

I never said they're wrong. I said they're intractable.

So I agree with all of that but we still need to find a way so that Gazans are not murdered on a daily basis anymore.

Oh, if that's all we're after its dead simple. Two solutions: give the Arab world what it wants and destroy Israel, or just wait until the genocide is complete - once all the Gazans have been murdered, Israel will stop murdering Gazans.

Boru

[Rev. Rye]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_we...and_Israel

It might be but I think that indifference about Palestinians and falling for israel propaganda also play a big role in it.

Frankly, once you grasp the horrors of nuclear war and how they’re still several orders of magnitude worse than even what Bibi’s doing, even indifference about Palestinians and falling for Israeli propaganda become incidental to not wanting to risk it.

Case in point: just watch Threads. It’s probably the most terrifying movie ever made, because it’s about nuclear war, and, as far as scientists who study it, it’s almost totally accurate to what would happen IRL.



If you’re old enough to remember The Day After, the movie that scared even Reagan to make peace with Gorbachev, remember that that was the watered down version.