If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong

[Ravenshire]

We DO have to abide by their law, or face the consequences, same as any other law.

You didn't follow or read the whole debate. He was saying that we have to respect subjective laws. Except people have different subjective laws. What if one subjective law conflicts with another subjective law? Who's right morally? That was my point that you haven't addressed.

There has to be an arbiter. You can offer as many opinions, evidence or arguments that you think makes your opinion about morality right. But if no one is the arbiter, then it remains opinion and not moral values. You might invoke the law of the land. But people like Jimmy Saville raped 100 children and never faced any legal consequences. He lived a full life believing his reputation remained intact (he was beloved) and got away with it. Why should he care about "subjective" laws??

Let's see if you can stick to a topic intelligently. I predict bs derailing rather than taking on the dilemma.

Now you're conflating law with morality? You do know the two are not the same, right? What is immoral is not necessarily illegal and what is illegal is not necessarily immoral.

But, you go right on ahead dragging those goalposts all over the place.

[Nay_Sayer]

Conversation and discussion aren't one-way streets. Thoughts and prayers, RAmen

Retarded response. You're ignored

0/10  I accept your concession of defeat.

[Ravenshire]

You are obsessed with Jimmy Savile (whose name you haven't learned to spell even after 50 pages), which is strange because there are many living pedophiles that are raping kids right now that need to be stopped (from child marriages in Muslim countries to legal child brothels in countries like Cambodia), but you don't care about them. That's why your outrage seems fake because you don't care about victims and how to protect them.

Morality has a practical role in society, which is to isolate and distance people who cause trouble. But what you are asking for is something you yourself are not sure what.

Savile somewhat got away since his name and legacy are tarnished, and it is highly unlikely that he lived a full life as you suggest because he was probably constantly nervous and afraid his crimes would come to surface, and he probably knew that if it didn't catch up with him while he was still alive, it would be found out when he died because he lived in a society where this kind of behavior is considered monstrous. Which can't be said about grown men who marry 9-year-old girls in theocratic Afghanistan.

You're fucking stupid, man. You think derailing the argument rather than addressing it is valid logically. What the fuck does pedophiles in Cambodia have to do with this argument, retard?

You've got a lot of gall calling anyone stupid or retarded since you have no fucking clue what your talking about.

[Nay_Sayer]

I am declaring ATM a troll/poe. Move forward with this knowledge

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Child brothels in Cambodia are germane to the topic because pretzels are an over-rated snack food, moron.

Boru

Exactly

Read that, did you?

Boru

[awty]

I am declaring ATM a troll/poe.  Move forward with this knowledge

I called troll pages ago.

Apparently, this chew toy is what some people need right now.

[Alan V]

No one was able to show a path to moral values under atheism.

Atheism is not a worldview with a built-in moral system. There are a variety of secular moral philosophies which atheists uphold, as you have been told. You think your system is superior. We each think ours are more accurate, and have argued why.

If you don't like the many answers atheists have offered you in this long discussion, that is your problem, not ours.

From my personal perspective, the single greatest moral failing of most religious people is their arrogance. It blinds them to the world around them, so they blunder around causing all sorts of conflict and harm.

[AngelThMan]

No one was able to show a path to moral values under atheism.

Atheism is not a worldview with a built-in moral system.  There are a variety of secular moral philosophies which atheists uphold, as you have been told.  You think your system is superior.  We each think ours are more accurate, and have argued why.

If you don't like the many answers atheists have offered you in this long discussion, that is your problem, not ours.

From my personal perspective, the single greatest moral failing of most religious people is their arrogance.  It blinds them to the world around them, so they blunder around causing all sorts of conflict and harm.

Topic change. That makes your argument a red herring fallacy. Learn some logic

[Kitan Etos]

[The Grand Nudger]

There has to be an arbiter.

Who made up that rule. That’s just…like…your opinion. I disagree. There’s no universal law that there has to be an decider. You can’t force me accept one either.

See why that response isn’t working now?

Anywho, if subjectivity is true, everyone is their own decider and all moral statements, including diametrically opposed moral statement, have equivalent value for the same reasons.

If relativity is true, then society as a whole is the decider, and whatever society says is the moral truth.

If objectivity is true then facts of the matter in question are the decider.

Three different possibilities, none of them being a god. What’s the problem supposed to be?