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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
October 20, 2026 at 9:30 am
(This post was last modified: October 20, 2026 at 9:35 am by The Grand Nudger.)
There are all sorts of rules “under atheism”. You’ve got a bunch of atheists telling you as much. Subjectivists rules, relativists rules, objectivists rules. In two of those types of rules, there’s even a decider, explicitly. In one of them, there isn’t, by definition.
Insomuch as we’ve come full circle it is down to you having prepared yourself to argue with a different set of propositions than the ones you’re actually encountering. Essentially repeating yourself on a loop despite those objections having no weight to the positions you’re actually encountering.
That there are no rules you’re “bound” to accept…like gravity…is a given under -every- moral understanding…with or without gods.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
October 20, 2026 at 9:45 am
(October 20, 2026 at 9:30 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: There are all sorts of rules “under atheism”. You’ve got a bunch of atheists telling you as much. Subjectivists rules, relativists rules, objectivists rules. In two of those types of rules, there’s even a decider, explicitly. In one of them, there isn’t, by definition.
Insomuch as we’ve come full circle it is down to you having prepared yourself to argue with a different set of propositions than the ones you’re actually encountering. Essentially repeating yourself on a loop despite those objections having no weight to the positions you’re actually encountering.
That there are no rules you’re “bound” to accept…like gravity…is a given under -every- moral understanding…with or without gods.
I reject all those so-called rules. What have I don't wrong? I don't care about anyone's opinion. I want to know what I'm doing wrong objectively
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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
October 20, 2026 at 9:57 am
(This post was last modified: October 20, 2026 at 9:59 am by The Grand Nudger.)
You don’t care about these rules but want to know what you’ve done wrong by them? It’s not going to be particularly difficult for me to explain, as an atheist and an objectivist, what you e objectively done wrong with x. We’ve even agreed on this matter exactly, in thread…..but if you don’t care about that then you don’t care about that.
So what? No matter what the rules are, no matter the nature of those rules, regardless of whether or not there are gods….there will be rule dissenters, rule breakers…hell…straight up sociopaths.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
October 20, 2026 at 10:18 am
(October 20, 2026 at 9:57 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: You don’t care about these rules but want to know what you’ve done wrong by them? It’s not going to be particularly difficult for me to explain, as an atheist and an objectivist, what you e objectively done wrong with x. We’ve even agreed on this matter exactly, in thread…..but if you don’t care about that then you don’t care about that.
So what? No matter what the rules are, no matter the nature of those rules, regardless of whether or not there are gods….there will be rule dissenters, rule breakers…hell…straight up sociopaths. Like I have said, he wants some weird secular version of divine command theory, a morally bankrupt moral system.
"Change was inevitable"
Nemo sicut deus debet esse!
“No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
October 20, 2026 at 10:18 am
(October 20, 2026 at 9:45 am)AngelThMan Wrote: (October 20, 2026 at 9:30 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: There are all sorts of rules “under atheism”. You’ve got a bunch of atheists telling you as much. Subjectivists rules, relativists rules, objectivists rules. In two of those types of rules, there’s even a decider, explicitly. In one of them, there isn’t, by definition.
Insomuch as we’ve come full circle it is down to you having prepared yourself to argue with a different set of propositions than the ones you’re actually encountering. Essentially repeating yourself on a loop despite those objections having no weight to the positions you’re actually encountering.
That there are no rules you’re “bound” to accept…like gravity…is a given under -every- moral understanding…with or without gods.
I reject all those so-called rules. What have I don't wrong? I don't care about anyone's opinion. I want to know what I'm doing wrong objectively
"For the only way to eternal glory is a life lived in service of our Lord, FSM; Verily it is FSM who is the perfect being the name higher than all names, king of all kings and will bestow upon us all, one day, The great reclaiming" -The Prophet Boiardi-
Conservative trigger warning.
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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
October 20, 2026 at 10:24 am
Some people, unfortunately, need their hand held across that virtuous road.
"What a little moonlight can do." ~ Billie Holiday
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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
October 20, 2026 at 10:36 am
(This post was last modified: October 20, 2026 at 10:40 am by Sheldon.)
(October 20, 2026 at 9:10 am)AngelThMan: Wrote: There are no rules under atheism.
Quote:Sheldon:
This again implies there are objective moral rules under theism, this remains an unevidenced and incorrect statement. That you want a deity to have handed an archaic superstition moral absolutes is not an objective statement about reality.
That makes you the arbiter.
Quote:Sheldon:
Halelujiah, he's finally got it. Yes moral agents have to have the ability to understand they are faced with choices.
If a baby kills someone, it has done something wrong even if it doesn't know it.
Quote:Sheldon:
If I pick a rock up and beat someone to death with it, has the rock done something wrong?
Though if there are no moral rules, the baby has done nothing wrong.
Quote:Sheldon:
What moral rules, where are these coming from?
I guess we've gone full circle. Imo you have not established a moral ground I'm required to obey Indeed, but then neither have you or any deity. Luckily he has his own reason, and that is all he needs to weigh consequences and assess moral turpitude.
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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
October 20, 2026 at 10:54 am
(October 20, 2026 at 9:57 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: You don’t care about these rules but want to know what you’ve done wrong by them? It’s not going to be particularly difficult for me to explain, as an atheist and an objectivist, what you e objectively done wrong with x. We’ve even agreed on this matter exactly, in thread…..but if you don’t care about that then you don’t care about that.
So what? No matter what the rules are, no matter the nature of those rules, regardless of whether or not there are gods….there will be rule dissenters, rule breakers…hell…straight up sociopaths.
Why are they wrong? All I've heard is: subjective morality.
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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
October 20, 2026 at 10:55 am
(This post was last modified: October 20, 2026 at 10:56 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(October 20, 2026 at 10:18 am)The Architect Of Fate Wrote: (October 20, 2026 at 9:57 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: You don’t care about these rules but want to know what you’ve done wrong by them? It’s not going to be particularly difficult for me to explain, as an atheist and an objectivist, what you e objectively done wrong with x. We’ve even agreed on this matter exactly, in thread…..but if you don’t care about that then you don’t care about that.
So what? No matter what the rules are, no matter the nature of those rules, regardless of whether or not there are gods….there will be rule dissenters, rule breakers…hell…straight up sociopaths. Like I have said, he wants some weird secular version of divine command theory, a morally bankrupt moral system.
That may be the case, it does seem like that’s the only thing we could conclude from his insistence on a decider…but if that is the case, then he doesn’t actually reject these so called rules. He accepts subjectivism, which works with or without gods. If that is the case, what he rejects is objectivity.
There would still, ofc, be people who do not follow those rules. They’ve done nothing objectively wrong, but if objectivity is irrelevant this doesn’t mean much.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
October 20, 2026 at 10:55 am
(October 20, 2026 at 10:36 am)Sheldon Wrote: (October 20, 2026 at 9:10 am)AngelThMan: Wrote: There are no rules under atheism.
That makes you the arbiter.
If a baby kills someone, it has done something wrong even if it doesn't know it.
Though if there are no moral rules, the baby has done nothing wrong.
I guess we've gone full circle. Imo you have not established a moral ground I'm required to obey Indeed, but then neither have you or any deity. Luckily he has his own reason, and that is all he needs to weigh consequences and assess moral turpitude. No thinking is bad you need a sky daddy to blindly obey . . . .Lol
"Change was inevitable"
Nemo sicut deus debet esse!
“No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM
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