Question for deists: Why is there a Creator?

[Cinjin]

Perhaps Paladin might be interested in enlightening you, but if he's not, visit this website. http://www.deism.com/

Actually, that's not my website.

I wasn't implying that it was. "...visit this website"

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Again, all the human characteristics assigned to God I automatically assume are ridiculous.

Earlier, as I highlighted above, you said that you view God as a "genius on every level." So, if God is a genius, then it means that He has intelligence, right? I'm assuming the answer is yes, and if so, then this means that your view of God does have characteristics which are shared by humans unlike what you said (although on a much superior level compared to ours) because intelligence is a quality which is present in us human beings. In short, intelligence is a human characteristic.

First - I added that my own mild assumptions are no more valid than anyone else's. However I feel it is safe to assume that the creator of the universe would indeed have intelligence.
Second - Where is it written that intelligence is an attribute only of the human race. God or no God, it's probable that other intelligent life exists in the universe and that is not human.

[Rayaan]

First - I added that my own mild assumptions are no more valid than anyone else's.

I have seen that, and it's fine if you think so, but someone else could also have his or her own reasons on why they think that your assumptions are not valid and/or have inconsistencies between them, and then try to discuss the subject logically, to be able to rationalize the belief at least. That's what I'm trying to do.

However I feel it is safe to assume that the creator of the universe would indeed have intelligence.

I believe that also, but my contention was that since mental characteristics such as intelligence, consciousness, foresight, and intention are human characteristics, it implies that God would be personal as well if He were to possess those attributes according to your own view of God, i.e. deism.

Second - Where is it written that intelligence is an attribute only of the human race. God or no God, it's probable that other intelligent life exists in the universe and that is not human.

You changed the meaning of my words a little bit here.

I never said that intelligence is an attribute only of the human race. I know that animals have it and aliens can have it also (if they exist). Rather, what I said is that intelligence is a human attribute, but not that it's limited to humans only. Therefore, if God is an intelligent being, then He shares a human attribute and thus it makes Him a personal God as opposed to an impersonal one.

[KichigaiNeko]

The reason for a "creator" is needed because the majority of hominids are incapable of thinking. end of story. It's the sort of nonsense that one would tell a child of say about 4 years old.

[Cinjin]

First - I added that my own mild assumptions are no more valid than anyone else's.

I have seen that, and it's fine if you think so, but someone else could also have his or her own reasons on why they think that your assumptions are not valid and/or have inconsistencies between them, and then try to discuss the subject logically, to be able to rationalize the belief at least. That's what I'm trying to do.

See, this is why I don't defend any belief structures - including my own. I don't think it's possible to rationalize a belief. No matter how logical you think your arguments are, you cannot base them on anything tangible or verifiable. Christians and Muslims are notorious for offering "evidence" for their beliefs and it's total horse shit. I don't pretend to know anything more than anyone else but since you seem so fixated with intelligence being a human characteristic that I assigned to God than I will concede that to you. I don't think it's unreasonable to assign the creator of the universe the attribute of intelligence. It seems to me to be a given. After all, I don't know of any religion that thinks their god is a mindless tomato plant.

I'm not actually TRYING to be a dick. I just don't care to defend what I believe to anyone. I think the nature of beliefs is indeed irrational and perhaps thats what makes me such an enigma. It's my own contradiction, my "Achilles" if you will.

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The reason for a "creator" is needed because the majority of hominids are incapable of thinking. end of story. It's the sort of nonsense that one would tell a child of say about 4 years old.

I think even the people who don't like me on this forum would concede that I am capable of thinking. With that exception, I oddly enough, do not disagree with you all that much.

[Zenith]

Again, I will say I've already covered this in two other threads and I'm just not willing to go over it again. Perhaps Paladin might be interested in enlightening you, but if he's not, visit this website. http://www.deism.com/
;)

Thanks for the link. I'll look into it.

When I look at the universe, I see a grand machine, from the micro to the macro. When I reflect on the human mind and how far we've come, how much seemed to come together in our evolution and hope for how far we'll go, I'm convinced this was intended.

Summer Queen asked me about the philosophy of deism. I'd like to add that one difference deism does make is a sense of optimism about the human prospect. I have a sense that the human race is progressively evolving not just biologically but also morally. We're living in a time of technological adolescence, a point that will make or break our species and our civilization. I have faith that reason will triumph, though the last ten years has tested that conviction.

You know, I was thinking of something like: do you have any arguments why there must/should be a Creator, instead of things simply existing (i.e. atheist version)? If you think there is a God, are there some things that made you reach that conclusion?

The reason for a "creator" is needed because the majority of hominids are incapable of thinking. end of story. It's the sort of nonsense that one would tell a child of say about 4 years old.

I sincerely don't consider Cinjin Cain and DeistPaladin stupid.

[DeistPaladin]

So if God is a conscious being, as you stated, then does it really make sense to think that He's an impersonal God (while having consciousness)? That idea doesn't seem to fit together for me though.

Consciousness doesn't mean personal. I sometimes use my human-scientist-and-the-petri-dish analogy to illustrate. The human scientist cultivate the bacteria colony in the petri dish but has no relationship with the individual cells or any ability to relate to them. It's a matter of scale.

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I wasn't implying that it was. "...visit this website"

Oops, my bad.

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You know, I was thinking of something like: do you have any arguments why there must/should be a Creator, instead of things simply existing (i.e. atheist version)? If you think there is a God, are there some things that made you reach that conclusion?

Mostly instinct, to be completely honest.

There is my "homosexuality proves God" argument.

[Minimalist]

Deists seem to think of 'god' as sort of a human appendix. It's there....it serves no useful purpose...and sometimes it causes a hell of a lot of trouble.

[fr0d0]

So you guys think this entity/ being created everything, and may be instrumental in it's maintenance, but fully accept science too? Do you think this is borne out of a desire to explain material origins, or from a sense of a spiritual realm/ reality?

[Cinjin]

Deists seem to think of 'god' as sort of a human appendix. It's there....it serves no useful purpose...and sometimes it causes a hell of a lot of trouble.

*chuckles* Even if that were the way I think - would that be so bad ... given the alternatives offered you by so many revealed religions?

[Minimalist]

Of course not. I've never heard a deist yet demand to have the 10 fucking commandments put in front of a courthouse.

You guys are no annoyance and no threat. I merely wonder why you bother?

As I told D-P long ago....deists seem like atheists who are reluctant to let go with both hands.