Posts: 5336
Threads: 198
Joined: June 24, 2010
Reputation:
77
RE: What does God deserve?
July 8, 2011 at 7:26 pm
(July 8, 2011 at 6:12 pm)Rayaan Wrote: Well, now you could say, "Why did God make atheists in the world and then send them to Hell (and torture them for eternity) just for not believing?"
Let's look at motivations for either of two scenarios.
Scenerio 1: The priests-mullahs tell us that God judges us on the basis of faith but it's not true.
Scenario 2: The priests-mullahs tell us that God judges us on the basis of faith and it is true.
In scenario 1, the priests-mullahs are telling us something that isn't true. Why would they do that?
The question is almost rhetorical. I trust I don't even need to answer it?
In scenario 2, we have a god who hides from his worshipers and yet is so demanding of attention and adoration that he wants it on pain of eternal torture. He "tests" us to see if we join the right faith and yet most people who will join the right religion are those who were raised in the right place at the right time in the right family. What's his motivation?
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
Posts: 66329
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: What does God deserve?
July 8, 2011 at 7:29 pm
You skipped step 1 GC.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 8781
Threads: 26
Joined: March 15, 2010
Reputation:
29
RE: What does God deserve?
July 8, 2011 at 7:37 pm
(July 8, 2011 at 1:40 pm)Pel Wrote: I have posted this question on one of the philosophy forums but I would also like to ask the question over here. This question is mainly for monotheists or anyone else who believes in a God who dishes out punishments.
If God holds us responsible for causing harm, then why doesn't he punish him self since if he is omniscient and omnipotent then he is intentionally the major cause of all suffering.
So it would be only fair from him considering all of the natural disasters only that he should put him self in hell for eternity ? That's if he is as just and fair as he says he is!!!
Thoughts
Welcome to the forum Pel, this is the first time I've seen you post. Being that God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent then how is it He would be His own judge, with Him being these things then what He does is moral and those who are created by such a supreme being can not judge Him. God is loving that is why He judges each person so that the righteous are justified by the punishment others bring upon themselves. God did not create sin it is a manifestation of man's disobedence to God and thus must receive the punishment that is right. God will not go aginst His nature actually He can not go aginst His nature and so God can not sin because He is perfect by His own nature, God can not be tempted by sin so He can not fall to sin, this being said God is the only One that can be the judge of humanity.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
Posts: 13051
Threads: 66
Joined: February 7, 2011
Reputation:
92
RE: What does God deserve?
July 8, 2011 at 7:42 pm
Question GC, if God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and loving, why is it that he allowed man to fall into original sin? He should have known the consequences and had the power to stop it, yet he sat back and did nothing.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
Posts: 88
Threads: 18
Joined: June 1, 2011
Reputation:
0
RE: What does God deserve?
July 8, 2011 at 8:39 pm
Rayaan, I think you are just following the tradition of your parents. A lot of people say they are Muslim or Christian but haven't read the bible or the quran. The fact that you have read them doesn't mean that they are true. Rayaan, the quran is a badly writen book that claims that there can't be anything like it. I am not educated but I can recognise nonsense and a bad writing style.
Gods child, you sound Christian(I can't see right now your signature because I use my.phone. I supose I could look into you profile, later). There is no way someone can call him self loving but tell you to kill someone for enticing you to a different God.
Thanks
Posts: 5336
Threads: 198
Joined: June 24, 2010
Reputation:
77
RE: What does God deserve?
July 8, 2011 at 8:43 pm
(July 8, 2011 at 7:42 pm)FaithNoMore Wrote: Question GC, if God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and loving, why is it that he allowed man to fall into original sin?
Yahweh didn't get to be omnipotent until the NT.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
Posts: 69248
Threads: 3759
Joined: August 2, 2009
Reputation:
259
RE: What does God deserve?
July 8, 2011 at 8:47 pm
(July 8, 2011 at 7:42 pm)FaithNoMore Wrote: Question GC, if God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and loving, why is it that he allowed man to fall into original sin? He should have known the consequences and had the power to stop it, yet he sat back and did nothing.
G-C's god is a real scumbag.
Posts: 88
Threads: 18
Joined: June 1, 2011
Reputation:
0
RE: What does God deserve?
July 8, 2011 at 8:48 pm
(July 8, 2011 at 8:39 pm)Pel Wrote: Rayaan, I think you are just following the tradition of your parents. A lot of people say they are Muslim or Christian but haven't read the bible or the quran. The fact that you have read them doesn't mean that they are true. Rayaan, the quran is a badly writen book that claims that there can't be anything like it. I am not educated but I can recognise nonsense and a bad writing style. Look at the porest countries are the most religious, especially Muslim but Allah promises in quran that he will protect you if you obey him and yet in another place he Tels you he will test you with your lived and other things. And the richest countries and best places to live are the least religious.
I have a question for you Rayaan and that is were are your parents from and were do you live now? What's you background?
Gods child, you sound Christian(I can't see right now your signature because I use my.phone. I supose I could look into you profile, later). There is no way someone can call him self loving but tell you to kill someone for enticing you to a different God suposing he is perfect. And how can God have two wils? The old testament and the new testament. I got that from the age of reason by Thomas Paine.
Thanks
Posts: 69248
Threads: 3759
Joined: August 2, 2009
Reputation:
259
RE: What does God deserve?
July 8, 2011 at 9:06 pm
Quote:Gods child, you sound Christian
You nailed that one, Pel.
Posts: 88
Threads: 18
Joined: June 1, 2011
Reputation:
0
RE: What does God deserve?
July 9, 2011 at 12:00 am
Rayaan and Gods child, please don't get offended. I am just trying to give you a few facts about things wich you must be aware of but are ignoring because you think I know there is a creator and this scripture sounds true.
There are so many religions and just because you are born to certain faith parents it doesn't make it true, you should understand that. Or because in your country it is a predominant religion.
I could say that in a way I am a cultural Muslim because of my father( Yugoslav secular Muslim and mother Serbian orthodox christian, also secular)so I don't hate you or the god you believe in, or anyone else. I am just being honest and sometimes I might go a bit far with my arguments but its all in good faith by being honest to my self first and then to as many people ad I can.
Again I am not picking on you but you have avoided my very important questions I have asked you in past Rayaan. Otherwise I think you are a good person, atleast you comunicate with atheists and others wich is in a way against parts of Islamic teachings.
Thanks
|
