What are your answers?

[The Grand Nudger]

I could read one verse, one chapter, or the entire book. The only thing you can count on finding with any consistency is depravity and revisionist propaganda. You have to have a pretty fine blade to pick out the nicer bits. I think the "begats" qualifies as the least violent and most uplifting portion of the entire ordeal.

[kılıç_mehmet]

Ok, here we go again. The reason it is an issue worth discussing is because religious belief dominates many of our societies and forces its beliefs down OUR throats in every single area (health, education, defence, law, politics), restricts societal development, is responsible for bigotry, tribalism, more than a few deaths and any number of barbaric and outdated beliefs. Are you saying that because we don't believe God exists, that we shouldn't weigh in with our thoughts when people that do believe use that belief to do things that are reprehensible? Do you really think our lack of belief means we have nothing to say on the matter? A bit like saying if I supported the Democratic party, it's pointless me discussing Republican policies. What an idiotic thing to say.

If you think it's so stupid, what are you doing here?

Excuse me, but where exactly are religious beliefs forced down your throats, or dominate every single area of your life? Like what kind of an effect does religion have on your healthcare system? Or your educational system? Really, please enlighten me.

Do you really think our lack of belief means we have nothing to say on the matter?

Well, since none of you are theologians, I figure that the most you can discuss is the existence of God. And this is only a philosophical debate, nothing to get anxious about.
But I see that you're really, really motivated by something to think that you're under some sort of a siege by religion, God, or whatever.
This is quite dangerous. It's called the minority complex. Most atheists in my country do not have it, since they do not tend to distinct themselves from others by their views on religion. I have yet to meet someone that speaks of other people as "you know, these muslims are...", as like we are not of the same damn people.
Besides, America is quite secular, and I do not think that religion does restrict social development in any way. If you can show me a solid example, we can talk on that one.

A bit like saying if I supported the Democratic party, it's pointless me discussing Republican policies. What an idiotic thing to say.

Religion is nothing like politics. It can be used as a tool, maybe. But in itself, this does not constitute a good example.

[ElDinero]

Are you joking? You can't think of examples of religion having an effect on legislation, education or healthcare? Don't be so stupid. Think about it for about five minutes and try again.

You didn't even understand my very obvious politics/religion thing, which was nothing to do with comparing the two, and everything to do with applying your logic to a different situation. Would you prefer me to give a different example? And perhaps use finger puppets?

[The Grand Nudger]

Secularism has been under attack in the US for a decade, openly. If you weren't aware of this that's fine (obviously don't live here). Now you are. If religion is nothing like politics, and you aren't speaking directly out of your ass, you wont have any trouble explaining the right wing conservatives that we have such a surplus of will you?

Taking a wild stab here and guessing that you're situated somewhere near the indian sub-continent? We could check up on exactly how atheists feel where ever you're from with that juicy little tidbit. Pretty good chance you haven't given an entirely accurate description of the situation wherever you live.

[kılıç_mehmet]

Secularism has been under attack in the US for a decade, openly. If you weren't aware of this that's fine (obviously don't live here). Now you are.

Then please give me some examples of these horrendous attacks against secularity.

Are you joking? You can't think of examples of religion having an effect on legislation, education or healthcare? Don't be so stupid. Think about it for about five minutes and try again.

You didn't even understand my very obvious politics/religion thing, which was nothing to do with comparing the two, and everything to do with applying your logic to a different situation. Would you prefer me to give a different example? And perhaps use finger puppets?

Please tell me how religious beliefs actually have any kind of effects on education or healthcare. It could have effects on politics, as people may oppose certain things due to their religious sentimentalities, but I believe that your constitution was quite clear that the congress cannot make any laws concerning, or based on a particular religion.
Unless your constitution was openly challenged in the congress, requesting a change to alter the terms that concern themselves with secularism.

As again for your example, I never said that you can't criticize, or discuss religion. But quoting the OP here;

Do athiests hate God or do they hate organized religion in general?

And here;

Why does it seem like athiests hate Jesus more than anyone, what do you think of Jesus?

this does not actually say "do atheists criticize just God, or organized religion", it simply speaks of the same childish behavior I see in some atheists, namely, getting really mad at the mention of certain religious topics, and continuing with generalizations about religious groups in general. Not an intelligent discussion in philosophical, or theological terms. I haven't still explored this forum properly, but I'm sure that I'll be coming across a lot of examples of what I just spoke of.

[downbeatplumb]

Excuse me, but where exactly are religious beliefs forced down your throats, or dominate every single area of your life? Like what kind of an effect does religion have on your healthcare system? Or your educational system? Really, please enlighten me.

Are you kidding me! are you not keeping up with current events.

The religious right wing of american politics are very involved with trying to 'teach the debate' where it comes to evolution in schools, what this means in effect is the introduction of creationism by the back door.
The religious right have forced the students to pledge alegiance to the flag and introduced the priviso 'one nation under god' which was not originally the case.
The religious right interfere with contraception, abortion and other legisalation and regularly try to outlaw all things gay.

The religious right wing of the republican party are also very anti-socialist, probably because the soviets were supposed to be a socialist government and they were anti-religion because it threatned their power base, so everything that smacks of socialism is seen as anti religion like obamas health care reforms.

Some religious people like to meddle and this effects, in a negative way, everyone else in the society in which these meddlesome people live.

[ElDinero]

Please tell me how religious beliefs actually have any kind of effects on education or healthcare. It could have effects on politics, as people may oppose certain things due to their religious sentimentalities, but I believe that your constitution was quite clear that the congress cannot make any laws concerning, or based on a particular religion.
Unless your constitution was openly challenged in the congress, requesting a change to alter the terms that concern themselves with secularism.

Firstly, it's not my constitution, I'm from the UK, but that's fine. The USA is a great place to point out these things, it's full of examples.

Education: Controversy over intelligent design/evolution, prayer in public school, pledge of allegiance
Healthcare: Abortion, stem cell research, contraception

That was easy. Are you really saying you are ignorant to all of this?

[Shell B]

I was just going to point out that I am sure ElD is not American. It's really helpful to go, "Well, in my country we have all the best of everything. The atheists fart cinnamon and eat rainbows." when you have no fucking clue where any of us are from.

Wait, if you're not atheist, what right have you to discuss atheism? Double standards, how fun.

---

I haven't still explored this forum properly

Now would be as good a time as any. Make sure you head into the introductions area, while you're at it.

[The Grand Nudger]

You'd have to living in a bunker somewhere to be oblivious to our current issues. There is a far more likely scenario than this.

[kılıç_mehmet]

Please tell me how religious beliefs actually have any kind of effects on education or healthcare. It could have effects on politics, as people may oppose certain things due to their religious sentimentalities, but I believe that your constitution was quite clear that the congress cannot make any laws concerning, or based on a particular religion.
Unless your constitution was openly challenged in the congress, requesting a change to alter the terms that concern themselves with secularism.

Firstly, it's not my constitution, I'm from the UK, but that's fine. The USA is a great place to point out these things, it's full of examples.

Education: Controversy over intelligent design/evolution, prayer in public school, pledge of allegiance
Healthcare: Abortion, stem cell research, contraception

That was easy. Are you really saying you are ignorant to all of this?

These things seem to be "controversial" simply because there is a minority of people that want "prayer in schools". In truth, once you point out to those people, that America is actually not a real nation state, that has a uniform ethnic makeup and religion, they will probably state that they didn't want it to be nationwide and etc. The USA provides many alternatives to public schools, such as homeschooling, where they can teach their children whatever they want.
There may be a controversy, but it certainly does not reflect itself to a jurisdictional or educational level, as evolution is an accepted scientific theory, just like any other scientific theory out there, and will be taught in public schools, regardless of what they may think about it.

As for the pledge of allegiance, I think that this is the only point where they have managed to actually bring about a real change, and that's where it's at.
It's open to discussion too, and once more, one can easily point out that America is not uniform, not by a long shot.
The stem cell controversy is generally tied to abortion, since the stem cells that are most useful for the research, meaning, those who can transform into other cell types, are extracted from fetuses, who are, in return, extracted from abortions and miscarriages.

The matter of abortion on the other hand, has no real religious basis.
There can be a philosophical stance on it, namely, on where life actually starts and etc. but I don't remember anything in any christian doctrine that talks about abortion, anywhere. And abortion is a procedure that dates back to the antiquity.

Wait, if you're not atheist, what right have you to discuss atheism? Double standards, how fun.

Did I say that I wasn't? Even if I were no atheist, I didn't open a thread like this one and titled it "atheists and other retarded stuff", or this calling people titled "child religion", simply because I have no problem with atheism, nor
atheists. You however seem to be past the point of simple philosophical and theological arguing.

You'd have to living in a bunker somewhere to be oblivious to our current issues. There is a far more likely scenario than this.

Your current issues are quite superficial. There is no theological threat to American secularism. I think that Americans must be mad from having too few problems that they turned to discussing such insignificant problems.
I mean, you have two wars on your hands, raging on still, but your votes are polarized primarily on stupid issues.