The Middle Ages Was the Best We Ever Had

[kılıç_mehmet]

What I meant by that, was that as long as we remove the rest of the shit those people had to deal with, and think only off riding horses, pillaging and whatnot, it's decent. Add in the rest and you're obviously much better off where and when you are now. We do that a lot though. Imagine some part of the near or distant past and lay that construct over the things we take for granted in the here and now. What if you weren't a warrior, or socially respected? Disease? Hardships? Of course even if you were well placed the price of playing this game was your life. Just to name a few.

If I were of my own family line, I'd have a good life. Going back enough, you'd see us being respected raiders for at least two sultanates, and one khanate.
Besides, my family has seen hardships fairly recently, after we were expelled from where we came from originally.

[The Grand Nudger]

No one ever fantasizes about that grand moment in history where their ancestors civilizations were utterly crushed, do they..lol. Everyone's family line traces back to someone important. I guess no one is descended from the guy who cleans up horse shit.

(You're still better off now than you would have been then. The things that plague us the worst are not affected by social strata.)

Let's do a little thought experiment. Let's say that tomorrow morning you could wake up in a future that mirrors the past in culture and technology. Now we're not going back in time here, so your families social status then has no bearing now. Lines would need to be redrawn. Is this the sort of utopia you're expressing a longing for? We haven't piggybacked any modern conveniences in as an unsaid arrangement have we? There's a reason that the culture you're longing for is dead.

Personally, my family lost any knowledge of the specifics of their origins a long ways back when the less lawful among us decided to assume a name. We've been a part of the "American Thing" since the beginning. Still, I wouldn't trade places with any one of my ancestors, because even though they led "good lives" for the time, they were still completely inferior to the life I can lead in the here and now.

[thesummerqueen]

Well...one side of my family did, Rhythm.

My dad was trading up when he married a Cohen.

[The Grand Nudger]

Those people who feel that they are on the short end of some stick, and long for the times past when their family was respected or important never stop to consider that the barriers imposed by that culture may have directly led to their families current position.

[5thHorseman]

Every European is related to Charlamagne.

[The Grand Nudger]

Indeed, world full of kings, queens, raiders, and smart men. Hardly likely.

[Justtristo]

Farenc Puskas was the greatest Magyar.

The greatest was, indeed Arpad.
I, as a Turk, view the Magyars as the closest people to us in Europe, as a whole. Not our former muslim subjects, like Bosnians and Albanians, as they may have adopted our religion, and maybe some of our customs, but our history and lineage meet eachother with the Magyars.
I also hope to attend the Kurultai in Hungary this year, hopefully.

As far as I know it, the Turkish people are mostly descendants of Islamised Greeks and Armenians. Plus some of Bosnian, Greek and Bulgarian Muslim refugees. I don deny there was a migration of central Asians into modern day turkey, however it is more a matter of the local assimilating into the culture of the conquerors.

By the way I knew a lot of Turkish people when I was a teenager. Only a few looked remotely like Central Asians, a lot of them looked like Greeks, Armenians, Bulgarians and Syrians.

---

I gave up 'rightful' a long time ago and so should you. Romania is still what we may refer to as Trans-sylvania.. the last bastion of native forests in Europe. Interesting blood line Murad XIV had.

A lot of the Ottoman sultan's mothers were Christian slave girls from places like the Balkans and Russia.

---

And my father's family still maintains that Vlad Tepes was a great ruler. He was still a dick.

Was Vlad Tepes fairly good towards the Jews by any chance?

[kılıç_mehmet]

Farenc Puskas was the greatest Magyar.

The greatest was, indeed Arpad.
I, as a Turk, view the Magyars as the closest people to us in Europe, as a whole. Not our former muslim subjects, like Bosnians and Albanians, as they may have adopted our religion, and maybe some of our customs, but our history and lineage meet eachother with the Magyars.
I also hope to attend the Kurultai in Hungary this year, hopefully.

As far as I know it, the Turkish people are mostly descendants of Islamised Greeks and Armenians. Plus some of Bosnian, Greek and Bulgarian Muslim refugees. I don deny there was a migration of central Asians into modern day turkey, however it is more a matter of the local assimilating into the culture of the conquerors.

By the way I knew a lot of Turkish people when I was a teenager. Only a few looked remotely like Central Asians, a lot of them looked like Greeks, Armenians, Bulgarians and Syrians.

---

I gave up 'rightful' a long time ago and so should you. Romania is still what we may refer to as Trans-sylvania.. the last bastion of native forests in Europe. Interesting blood line Murad XIV had.

A lot of the Ottoman sultan's mothers were Christian slave girls from places like the Balkans and Russia.

---

And my father's family still maintains that Vlad Tepes was a great ruler. He was still a dick.

Was Vlad Tepes fairly good towards the Jews by any chance?

You are incorrect. If the Turkish migration to Anatolia was as small scale as the Avars and Huns before them, they would be assimilated just like them, as though as they were never there.
We, however, came in huge numbers. We didn't have to assimilate the population, and frankly, we didn't want to, because we were farming jizya from these people, and if they would convert, this would truly reflect itself on the coffers of the sultan.

Besides, in Turkey, you know what you are. People often claim to be turks, but this is due to the bullshit nationality description that we have.."Anyone who is a Turkish citizen is a Turk".. and all. We have had an influx of non-turkish refugees from the Balkans in the past, and they also style themselves as Turks sometimes, but if you question them further, they'll tell you that they're either bosniaks, or albanians.
But the "islamisation" thing is simply a myth. As there are two major groups of muslims to testify in the Balkans(Albanians and Bosniaks, muslim, yet do not speak Turkish), becoming a muslim does not turn you into a Turk. As a matter of fact, Albanians and Bosniaks resent us, and distance themselves from us as much as possible(unless they need us politically).
Similarly, all the Turks in Turkey, who are ethnic Turks know in general, from which tribe/region they are. I know mine.
Apart from that, there never was a nationwide genetic research done in Turkey. Most people might have taken blood samples from native or immigrant people in Istanbul. Istanbul is by no means homogenic, whereas the majority of the cities in Turkey are homogenous in ethnic terms, with slight deviations that come in forms of villages, mostly.

By the way I knew a lot of Turkish people when I was a teenager. Only a few looked remotely like Central Asians, a lot of them looked like Greeks, Armenians, Bulgarians and Syrians.

---

And I take it that you know as many greeks, armenians, bulgarians and syrians to make that comparison?
I know my family line quite well, so I have no worries about being of any of these.

A lot of the Ottoman sultan's mothers were Christian slave girls from places like the Balkans and Russia.

I know the sad mongrelization of the Ottoman bloodline. Still doesn't change the fact that their bloodline does go back to Ertughrul Ghazi.

In the light of all of this, if we were like anything of the people you've counted, our culture would have to be very close to any of these.
But we have distinct instruments, distinct music, distinct food, and distinct ways of dress.
Obviously, we are not of their kin, and they are not of our kin.
Turkey is not just for Turks that are from Anatolia. My family are from the Crimean Tatars and Romanian Turks/Tatars.
And if I'd ask the guy that lives next door, he'll tell me that he's from the Yörüks, nomads of Turkey. And if I'll ask the guy that lives downstairs, he'll tell me that he's from the exiled Turks of the Karamanoğlu beylik in Konya.
And so forth. Everyone knows who they are exactly. Whatever you are talking about, is the west, trying to discredit our heritage and bloodline, and insulting us by declaring us a non-nation of mongrels that does not exist. It is simply disgusting, but not particularly annoying, since we know who we are, and do not need "western experts" to tell us what we are.
It is really weird, since the majority of the western nations do not know what the hell they are, since their history doesn't go back past the 10th century, except for the more purer Germanics and slavs, who at least speak the languages of their forefathers, and are not like the British, French and the Spaniards, who are artificial nations, with languages derived from latin and few germanic words to supplement it.
The Turks, however, have a history and language that goes fairly well back, being documented according to their own tribes, and some of the oldest tribes still existing in Turkey(The Chepni, for example, being documented during Göktürk khanate, they still number about 5 million alone).

[thesummerqueen]

And my father's family still maintains that Vlad Tepes was a great ruler. He was still a dick.

Was Vlad Tepes fairly good towards the Jews by any chance?

My mother's family is Jewish - Polish, Austrian, German, and a smattering of Brit.

My dad's family is Romanian and a smash of German by which our last name supposedly came through. Last time I went to a family reunion, a lot of the older members were still speaking in heavy accents or in Romanian altogether.

I rather think that like most medieval rulers, Vlad had little use for Jews unless it meant money.

[KichigaiNeko]

Sorry mehmet you just lost me...you are biased and elitist.