A really hard question on Satan and deception.

[justthetruth]

It is amazing how atheist describe Christians. We are the fools who believe in a make believe God and they don't have a clue that the god of this world Satan, the fallen one, has blinded their eyes from the truth. If God did not exist there would be no existence at all. The periodic table of the elements is not my daddy. And I am not a monkey’s uncle. All God ever does is ask me to trust him. I do and I will face my death when the time comes with high anticipation. I will never regret my decision to follow him. Not here to save anyone, just shine some light into the darkness. Godschild, together we can chase 10,000.

[Cinjin]

Your ignorance of scripture goes beyond anything I've seen by anyone, you have no logical reasoning or understanding of scriptures you state the same old thing with no scriptural support, you should stop showing your ignorance of scripture.

Actually, his understanding of the scriptures is clearly accurate. It's his interpretation of those scriptures that you do not like GC. You should call it what it is. There is no ignorance (as you mentioned multiple times in ONE sentence), there is only your disapproval of his interpretation.

[Cyberman]

It is amazing how atheist describe Christians. We are the fools who believe in a make believe God and they don't have a clue that the god of this world Satan, the fallen one, has blinded their eyes from the truth.

My eyes may be blinded but I can still recognise preaching. And it's "atheists'.

If God did not exist there would be no existence at all. The periodic table of the elements is not my daddy. And I am not a monkey’s uncle.

Wow - a triple strawman non sequitur! And I thought they were just a myth. To paraphrase Tracey Harris of The Atheist Experience: "You believe without question in fallen angels and miracles etc, yet things like evolution and the periodic table of the elements blow your mind."

All God ever does is ask me to trust him.

Do you hear an actual audible voice asking you these things, or is it more of a feeling? Either way, how do you know it is your god doing this, rather than one of those fallen angels that you believe have lied to us? If they can lie to anyone at all, they can certainly lie to you.

I do and I will face my death when the time comes with high anticipation. I will never regret my decision to follow him.

Though I agree that you will never have regrets once you're dead, if you anticipate your death as much as you say shouldn't you be in more of a hurry to actually achieve it?

Not here to save anyone, just shine some light into the darkness.

You're not here to save anyone yet you tell us we're deceived by Satan. I see. As for the latter half of the above sentence, I have a quote in my extensive collection which will put it better than I could:

Actually, you've got it backwards. It's you fundies who want to keep everyone in the dark. After all, doesn't the name Lucifer mean "light bearer"?

Okay, okay. I'm feeling slightly magnanimous this evening, so I'll give you another answer, one that's more in the spirit of your post. A better analogy would be you repeatedly shining a large flashlight directly into our eyes while....

* not understanding that we actually can see just fine without it;

* not grasping the concept that a bright light shone directly into one's eyes does more harm than good;

* thinking we don't really mean what we say when we politely ask you to point your flashlight elsewhere (see points 1 and 2);

* not understanding that it won't make any difference if we sit and hear you ramble on about how a flashlight shining into your eyes changed your life for the better and it'd do the same for us if we only allowed it to hit our eyes for a little longer, perhaps from a different angle than we're used to (see point 3); and finally...

* not grasping the concept that, even if the company that manufactured your flashlight printed explicit instructions for its user to go out and shine it in other people's faces, said instructions are still unacceptably irritating, and do NOT, in fact, deserve immunity from criticism simply because the flashlight manufacturer says it's okay.

[IATIA]

Why would God tell them that they would die if they ate from the tree if they were already going to die. Sin brought death into the creation, if they had not disobeyed death would not have entered God's creation and they would have lived forever or until someone sinned.

Then why was a 'tree of life' necessary if not to ensure the longevity of Adam and Eve?

They knew what death was ...

And where did this knowledge come from? I do not recall any death prior to theirs after the fact. The only reference to death was god's threat, but if death does not yet exist, how are Adam and Eve able to comprehend this particular abstract concept?

... and since they did what good would it have done for God to tell them they would die if they ate from the tree if they were going to die anyway.

As I stated earlier, my contention is that god lied to keep Adam and Eve in his control as slaves to his garden. (need a bible quote for that? got one.)

Why would satan have wanted to tempt them if they were going to die, why would he say that they wouldn't die for eating from the tree. By that statement satan proves that they would live forever. If this does not satisfy you then I'm not sure any amount of statements will.

Satan was telling the truth and his purpose was to help Adam and eve realize that they were but slaves to a tyrannical monster.

Your ignorance of scripture goes beyond anything I've seen by anyone, you have no logical reasoning or understanding of scriptures you state the same old thing with no scriptural support, you should stop showing your ignorance of scripture.

It is your ignorance that is showing. You have yet to address my points. Let us make it less confusing and try one at a time.

1) Why was a 'tree of life' necessary if not to ensure the longevity of Adam and Eve?

[Godscreated]

Your ignorance of scripture goes beyond anything I've seen by anyone, you have no logical reasoning or understanding of scriptures you state the same old thing with no scriptural support, you should stop showing your ignorance of scripture.

Actually, his understanding of the scriptures is clearly accurate. It's his interpretation of those scriptures that you do not like GC. You should call it what it is. There is no ignorance (as you mentioned multiple times in ONE sentence), there is only your disapproval of his interpretation.

I'll always disapprove when scripture is so badly misinterpreted, I know you know that's what happened with these verses. Surely you are not going to lower yourself to defend something you knows wrong.

[Minimalist]

It is amazing how atheist describe Christians. We are the fools who believe in a make believe God

And people were saying that you were incapable of learning. Congratulations on passing lesson one.

[Godscreated]

@ IATIA, I'm going to tell you even though I know you will just disagree, the Tree of Life was placed in the garden because God wanted to let us know that such a thing existed. He knew Adam and Eve would fail, with the tree known about it should have been a sign to the Israelites that there would be such a thing as eternal life. Actually we do not know whether they ate from the tree or not, scripture does not state so one way or the other, if they did it would have made no difference, when they eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil they disobeyed God and that sin brought death into the world. God told them that if they ate of that tree they would surely die and many years later they surely died. "Surely die" never meant immediate death then nor does it have that absolute definition today. God knowing what would take place gave all hope of eternal life before Christ came to be our savior. Scripture makes it quite clear that death came into the world because of sin, and specifically that Adam was responsible.

[Cinjin]

I'll always disapprove when scripture is so badly misinterpreted, I know you know that's what happened with these verses. Surely you are not going to lower yourself to defend something you knows wrong.

You won't find an ally in me. Like you said, I can't defend something I KNOW is wrong.

[IATIA]

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@ IATIA, I'm going to tell you even though I know you will just disagree, the Tree of Life was placed in the garden because God wanted to let us know that such a thing existed. He knew Adam and Eve would fail, with the tree known about it should have been a sign to the Israelites that there would be such a thing as eternal life. Actually we do not know whether they ate from the tree or not, scripture does not state so one way or the other, if they did it would have made no difference, when they eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil they disobeyed God and that sin brought death into the world. God told them that if they ate of that tree they would surely die and many years later they surely died. "Surely die" never meant immediate death then nor does it have that absolute definition today. God knowing what would take place gave all hope of eternal life before Christ came to be our savior. Scripture makes it quite clear that death came into the world because of sin, and specifically that Adam was responsible.

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A little overly verbose for 'I do not know', but that is an acceptable answer for now.

2) The only reference to death is god's threat. If death does not yet exist, how are Adam and Eve supposed to be able to comprehend this particular abstract concept?

[The Grand Nudger]

I disapprove of your terrible misinterpretations of scripture GC, turning god into a petty tyrant. So what? Technically speaking they didn't "bring death into the world" btw, they were cursed (I know I know it doesn't sound as nice, and we like to keep god nice, rgr).