I really didn't realize how serious this could be cause he always spoke of their chats like they were just socializing with him.  No pressure as he says.  Talking mostly about the bible though.   As in not their cult, becoming a member, getting saved.  More of a common interest surrounding bible and religion.  He ask's a question if they can't answer it they ask an elder and come back with it.  

We've as a family never been religious or gone to church.   I know my dad is a casual believer in some type of higher power and has and is studying the bible. I always thought out of curiosity and for entertainment more than trying to "get right" with god. It's been going on for more than a year now.  Not sure how much longer than that. He is a lot more vulnerable phychologically than he was just a few years ago. Partially why I was never worried about it.  Never thought he could succumb to such an obvious scam. Assumed he recognized it as such. Any suggestions on how I can keep him from being sucked into this?


Been doing some reading at the watchtower files and all the sudden am starting to get scared.


What also creeps me out is that they came by when I was there one day but left because we were working in the yard. Didn't show back up for the whole two months I was there. I've only been gone two weeks and they have already made two visits.  A couple of hours each session.  He spends the summer where they have access to him and the winter 600 miles away.  I am 1800 miles away now.  No other family member close by. I'll be back in October. Thinking about going back early though.

He seems to like asking them hard questions thinking he's going to stump them.  But I am starting to think that this is a game their using to lure him in.

Welcome

Do you have any indications that they're sucking him in? Has he been talking about them as if he believes them?

The elderly are prime targets for scams so you are wise to be concerned.

I wouldn't trust the fuckers as far as I can throw them were I you.  Check the laws in his state.  Ask an attorney if you need to.

(July 22, 2015 at 1:22 am)rexbeccarox Wrote: Welcome

Do you have any indications that they're sucking him in? Has he been talking about them as if he believes them?

He's sort of defensive like if their talk is all casual and as he put it "no pressure".  And I bought that the first couple of times he talked about them. But this has been going on for more than a year now that I know of.  I don't want to ask probing questions like "how many times do they see you" "have they asked you for money" I did ask if they asked him to join.  I think his answer was they wanted him to come to some type of  a meeting. But he didn't.

I wouldn't want him to hear me say this but he has lost his edge and I suspect he might not be able to reason nearly as well as he could in the past. And the more I read the more I realize that they have one objective when they go door to door.  And of course their justification for it is that they're just  doing the lords work.

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(July 22, 2015 at 1:24 am)Minimalist Wrote: The elderly are prime targets for scams so you are wise to be concerned.

I wouldn't trust the fuckers as far as I can throw them were I you.  Check the laws in his state.  Ask an attorney if you need to.

I'll check into this.  I hate to spend the money but it might be money well spent. There is no law against what they are doing so far.  As far as I know.  I of course feel the same way as you.

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(July 22, 2015 at 1:22 am)rexbeccarox Wrote: Welcome

Thank's! By the way.

Welcome to the forum

That is a disgusting way for them to carry on, seeking out the most vulnerable and waiting until they are isolated. Fucking vultures. Sorry, that's a bit harsh towards vultures.

I guess it could be that he's enjoying the mental stimulation, but it does sound worrying that it's been going on so long. Do you think it would help if you suggested he look at some of the material you've been looking at, such as the film? You could use the same "no pressure" approach. "No pressure, just thought you might be interested in what I've been learning about them."

If you suspect they are after his money, then to me that would fall into outright scamming (as if it wasn't already) and maybe could be reported as a crime, since they are seeking to isolate him. But it's difficult, I understand how doing things behind his back, even for his own benefit, may end up making things worse.

I hope you can find a happy medium, it's very kind of you to be looking out for him.

It's possible that as he gets older and feels more limited and isolated, having regular visitors (who can also bring others) who express an interest in discussion is very attractive to him. To them, he is another soul to be saved and their express purpose is to get him to agree to a Bible study and become a baptized member of the organization. While the JWs do not force members to cut off relations with non-JW family (as opposed to ex-JW family), their teachings will create a barrier of some sort over time.

If you're concerned that he's getting drawn in versus just being happy to have some social time with friendly guests, start with a site like jwfacts.com. There are a lot of things that JWs have ready answers to, but there are also a number of facts that they may not even be aware of, because the JW leadership deliberately keeps them in the dark. The stuff about the early days of the movement, and the truth about Russell's end-time prophecies is stuff that they may be clueless about, and might make them uncomfortable enough that they decide not to return.

(July 22, 2015 at 1:59 am)robvalue Wrote: Welcome to the forum


I hope you can find a happy medium, it's very kind of you to be looking out for him.

Welcome to the forum 
Thanks!
>>Sorry, that's a bit harsh towards vultures.
That’s probably an understatement.

Film would be great! What is the name of it?

Yes, I don’t want to come off too strong. From the reading I have done they will tell you satin is working through family members to keep you from being saved.

I have issues and am overwhelmed here at my house I have to take care of.  So the amount of time and energy I can put into research is pretty limited. I did read of failed predictions and how they isolate their prey from family members so that they can brainwash them.  How they always come in two’s.  That’s so that they have the psychological advantage over their prey and for training purposes.  If they don’t think they can convert you they won’t give you the time of day.

The stuff with the failed scriptures my eye’s glazed over. But I think that might be helpful cause he seems to like being able to stump them. If I can make him think he’s seen through there scam on his own and how dangerous they are.  As opposed to my trying to get him to see this. The part about even allowing children to die before allowing them a blood transfusion would be very useful if I could find actual cases cause he’s practiced medicine since the mid 50’s Had his  own private practice retired from that.  Than all the way up to a few months ago working as a MD &  later a consultant for a public institution.

I have always been cynical about peoples motives. So it’s hard for me believe getting his money isn’t a large part of their intentions. I’m sure they think their saving someone at the last minute.   But at the same time laying down the groundwork for securing resources.

>>I understand how doing things behind his back, even for his own benefit, may end up making things worse.
My fear also. I need to talk to my brother about this but want to be careful in how I go about it for the very reason you stated above.
>>I hope you can find a happy medium
Me too!  I think I need to drop everything I am doing and focus entirely on making sure these people don’t get to him. He has always been skeptical of scams and scammers in the past.  Although I think 15 years ago at one time a scientologist had convinced him they were not so bad either. He seemed to be buying it. At the time I wasn’t worried about them but obviously they were laying out  the early stages of the grooming process.  Now I think he is very susceptible. They are more dangerous.  And I should have gotten concerned much earlier.

It's incredibly unlikely that the JW's who talk to your father are after his money (if he has any to begin with).  It's the Watchtower Society -itself- that runs the racket, not the individual halls or members.  Everybody gets fleeced equally on that count.  They might, of course, suggest that an elderly person write said society into their will.....lol. Donations are greatly encouraged, and all of that money goes up, up and up. The way it's used would make you giggle at the simplicity of the con, but there's nothing illegal about it, so meh.

When I'm 85, I hope that a couple of young jws come and pester me on a regular basis, preferably females, not too skinny.

(July 22, 2015 at 7:23 am)Tonus Wrote: It's possible that as he gets older and feels more limited and isolated

>>It's possible that as he gets older and feels more limited and isolated, having regular visitors (who can also bring others) who express an interest in discussion is very attractive to him.

Indeed!

>>jwfacts.com

This site is great!  It’s what I need.  Thanks!

(July 22, 2015 at 9:04 am)Rhythm Wrote: It's incredibly unlikely that the JW's who talk to your father are after his money (if he has any to begin with).  It's the Watchtower Society -itself- that runs the racket, not the individual halls or members.  Everybody gets fleeced equally on that count.  They might, of course, suggest that an elderly person write said society into their will.....lol.  Donations are greatly encouraged, and all of that money goes up, up and up.  The way it's used would make you giggle at the simplicity of the con, but there's nothing illegal about it, so meh.

Yep. The JWs pride themselves on not requiring donations at their meetings (they don't pass a hat or tray, and their donation boxes are not conspicuous), but they are pointed at Bible examples that are meant to imply that a good Christian gives until the well is dry. Individual congregations are encouraged to be self-sufficient in addition to providing donations to the mother ship, and thus there is some "local pride" type pressure to give (which means that there is a lot more coming in to HQ than going out). The members themselves don't see potential new recruits as marks to be exploited, because they don't consider themselves to be such. The best con has as few people on the inside as possible; better for the rubes to work for you than with you.

The descriptions of heaven in the book of Revelation as a place brimming with gold and jewels gets taken pretty literally by Christian leadership, it seems.