(August 12, 2015 at 4:20 pm)Shuffle Wrote: Then why wouldn't Christians go around and kill children? Put them out of their misery and get rid of the possibility they would sin later in life and end up in hell.

Some immature Christians might do just that, and that's likely why the doctrine isn't given with more certainty. For me, and I daresay most Christians who hold to this doctrine, we don't do that because God doesn't want us to. As noted earlier, I worship god because of the good things he's done for me, including giving me children. I accordingly respond by trying to obey him...not by trying to get around his will on a technicality.

I'm not big on the personal relationship jargon, as it isn't expressly in the Bible and I think it gets too much play and has become somewhat trite. But, there is truth to it. You guys don't see the relationship, you just see rules and formulas.

(August 12, 2015 at 4:47 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: Indeed, if all children went to heaven, it would be grossly irresponsible to let any one of them reach an age when they might make a mistake and get condemned to hell.  Letting them live is giving them the opportunity for damnation.  Sending them straight to heaven would be doing them a favor.  If, that is, it were true that children who died went to heaven.

But what we have here is someone pretending to believe something, when they do not really believe it.  In this, as in most other cases, actions speak louder than words.  Parents who risk their children's immortal souls do not really love their children, when it would be so easy for them to be sent to heaven instead.

First, you're extremely sick if you think it would be "so easy" to kill anyone, let alone your own children.

Second, if my ancestors had done that, I wouldn't be here. Is it grossly irresponsible to deny potentially hundreds or thousands of generations of people life in order to secure heaven for one? Do you know waht the first command in the bible is? It's to be fruitful, multiply, and fill the earth.

(August 12, 2015 at 5:39 pm)alpha male Wrote:

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(August 12, 2015 at 4:47 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: Indeed, if all children went to heaven, it would be grossly irresponsible to let any one of them reach an age when they might make a mistake and get condemned to hell.  Letting them live is giving them the opportunity for damnation.  Sending them straight to heaven would be doing them a favor.  If, that is, it were true that children who died went to heaven.

But what we have here is someone pretending to believe something, when they do not really believe it.  In this, as in most other cases, actions speak louder than words.  Parents who risk their children's immortal souls do not really love their children, when it would be so easy for them to be sent to heaven instead.

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Quote:First, you're extremely sick if you think it would be "so easy" to kill anyone, let alone your own children.

Second, if my ancestors had done that, I wouldn't be here. Is it grossly irresponsible to deny potentially hundreds or thousands of generations of people life in order to secure heaven for one? Do you know waht the first command in the bible is? It's to be fruitful, multiply, and fill the earth.

Be fruitful and multiply IS NOT the First Commandment.  The First Commandment is to steal other people's land and to destroy their religious artifacts.

(August 12, 2015 at 5:31 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(August 12, 2015 at 4:20 pm)Shuffle Wrote: Then why wouldn't Christians go around and kill children? Put them out of their misery and get rid of the possibility they would sin later in life and end up in hell.

Some immature Christians might do just that, and that's likely why the doctrine isn't given with more certainty. For me, and I daresay most Christians who hold to this doctrine, we don't do that because God doesn't want us to. As noted earlier, I worship god because of the good things he's done for me, including giving me children. I accordingly respond by trying to obey him...not by trying to get around his will on a technicality.

I'm not big on the personal relationship jargon, as it isn't expressly in the Bible and I think it gets too much play and has become somewhat trite. But, there is truth to it. You guys don't see the relationship, you just see rules and formulas.

Why would't he want that? If you did that it would be part of his plan. Because he knows everything, he knew you would end up killing children, and that is why he created you under your certain circumstances.

(August 12, 2015 at 5:39 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(August 12, 2015 at 4:47 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: Indeed, if all children went to heaven, it would be grossly irresponsible to let any one of them reach an age when they might make a mistake and get condemned to hell.  Letting them live is giving them the opportunity for damnation.  Sending them straight to heaven would be doing them a favor.  If, that is, it were true that children who died went to heaven.

But what we have here is someone pretending to believe something, when they do not really believe it.  In this, as in most other cases, actions speak louder than words.  Parents who risk their children's immortal souls do not really love their children, when it would be so easy for them to be sent to heaven instead.

First, you're extremely sick if you think it would be "so easy" to kill anyone, let alone your own children.

Second, if my ancestors had done that, I wouldn't be here. Is it grossly irresponsible to deny potentially hundreds or thousands of generations of people life in order to secure heaven for one? Do you know waht the first command in the bible is? It's to be fruitful, multiply, and fill the earth.

It would be easy if I KNEW they would be in a "better place." I would send all the children in the world if I knew they would be able to live forever in complete bliss and happiness. You said yourself that god killed a bunch of children because he knew they would go to heaven anyway.

(August 13, 2015 at 12:51 am)Shuffle Wrote: Why would't he want that?

As noted further on in the post, he wants us to multiply and fill the earth, which we can't do if we kill all our children.

Quote:If you did that it would be part of his plan. Because he knows everything, he knew you would end up killing children, and that is why he created you under your certain circumstances.

One could equally argue that the fact that I accept an age of accountability doctrine yet don't kill my children is part of his plan.

Quote:It would be easy if I KNEW they would be in a "better place."

First, I doubt it would be easy even then.

Second, I don't KNOW they would end up in a better place. You seem to have missed passages saying that people's faith is smaller than a mustard seed. When you say that I don't believe 100%: guilty as charged.

(August 13, 2015 at 6:31 am)alpha male Wrote: 1. As noted further on in the post, he wants us to multiply and fill the earth, which we can't do if we kill all our children.
2. One could equally argue that the fact that I accept an age of accountability doctrine yet don't kill my children is part of his plan.
3. First, I doubt it would be easy even then.
4. Second, I don't KNOW they would end up in a better place. You seem to have missed passages saying that people's faith is smaller than a mustard seed. When you say that I don't believe 100%: guilty as charged.

1. Is that why he killed entire populations of infants several times?
2. So who is right?
3. It would. Trust me, I do it all the time.
4. Muslims know enough to kill themselves, why don't you?

Haha. He could have just made the exact number of people he wanted, then neither death nor birth would be required. He sure does like imitating natural processes in his inefficient ridiculous methods.

(August 13, 2015 at 2:26 pm)Shuffle Wrote: 1. Is that why he killed entire populations of infants several times?

Of course not.

Quote:2. So who is right?

If one of us is right, it's obviously me.

Quote:3. It would. Trust me, I do it all the time.

If you kill your children all the time because you think it gets them to heaven, why are you posing as an atheist?

Quote:4. Muslims know enough to kill themselves, why don't you?

The vast majority of Muslims don't kill themselves. As to those who do, I suppose they have greater faith than I do.

(August 14, 2015 at 5:35 am)alpha male Wrote:

(August 13, 2015 at 2:26 pm)Shuffle Wrote: 1. Is that why he killed entire populations of infants several times?

Of course not.

Quote:2. So who is right?

If one of us is right, it's obviously me.

Quote:3. It would. Trust me, I do it all the time.

If you kill your children all the time because you think it gets them to heaven, why are you posing as an atheist?

Quote:4. Muslims know enough to kill themselves, why don't you?

The vast majority of Muslims don't kill themselves. As to those who do, I suppose they have greater faith than I do.

1. Actually, I do remember you saying that he did it because they will be going to heaven anyway. Stick to what you are saying.

2. Thanks for that. I am now much more enlightened now that you shat out that amazing piece of knowledge into my eyes.

3. You are kidding, right?

4. So Allah exists, Yahweh doesn't. Pack your bags up people! Let's go!

(August 14, 2015 at 2:18 pm)Shuffle Wrote: 1. Actually, I do remember you saying that he did it because they will be going to heaven anyway. Stick to what you are saying.

Please quote me - I think you're adding to what I said.

Quote:2. Thanks for that. I am now much more enlightened now that you shat out that amazing piece of knowledge into my eyes.

IMO it's obvious, but if you need an explanation - most Christians aren't killing their children, so by your logic that's apparently his will.

Quote:3. You are kidding, right?

Partially. But, I'm not going to guess at the red herrings you throw out, so unless you explain yourself fully, I'm going to play along and take you literally.

Quote:4. So Allah exists, Yahweh doesn't. Pack your bags up people! Let's go!

That some people may believe that one god exists more fervently than some other people believe in another god says nothing about either god's existence.