(August 17, 2015 at 8:47 am)Drich Wrote: Either way your identification of a fallacy in my work is still wrong. I gave no such argument that concludes a hypothesis. I stated a fact. We all currently benefit from modern day slavery. If we say all slavery is wrong we are in trouble. Meaning we are hypocrits. By 'we all' I am acourse referring to the people who say all slavery is wrong.
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Sure, I can accept that you didn't state your opinion on whether slavery is or isn't wrong. I misread that, for which I apologize.  But you have to understand that these days starting a statement with "IF all slavery is wrong..." usually implies skepticism towards a widely accepted moral principle that all slavery is indeed wrong. 

Now - I'm not sure what you mean by "modern day slavery", but I'm pretty sure my definition differs.

(August 16, 2015 at 10:35 pm)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: Aaand here comes Drich, defending slavery to the hilt and insisting we all still depend on it. Way to go, you predictable little shit-flinger.

I'd love to hear your rationale for the statement that we all depend on modern slavery, or for why it would be necessary for us continue to do so even if that were true, but I also don't necessarily want to hear your condescending bullshit and floundering around while failing to answer direct questions, so I'm experiencing a dilemma as to whether to ask you to clarify your position...hmmm...

As I have said many times We of course rename our slaves, Migrant workers (essently homeless) in this country, but the application of farm work, absence of standard child labor laws, no mandates to a federal minimum wage (17,500 per Year is a family's average income per the links I provided in my last post on this subject) Makes a whole section of our population slaves to the companies/plantations they work for. Their housing is subsidized either by the company or government, and both demand extrememly hard work with very little accountability or oversite.

We (the other social ecconomic classes of people) could not afford our food otherwise.

Not to mention all the different sweat shops and raw material processing facalities that you beneifit from daily as a member of a 'modern society.' None of which would be possible if not for slaves.

Educate yourself fu..

http://www.antislavery.org/english/slave...avery.aspx
http://mic.com/articles/88461/a-modern-day-slave-plantation-exists-and-it-s-thriving-in-the-heart-of-America
http://www.wilderutopia.com/internationa...lavery/You also can find similar practices in bananas, coffee, and just about every other tropical commodity.

Then in india, texiles, leather good, assembly line production are all hot beds of slave practices.
Just google it.

Bottom line we need slavery. more over we need to own up to it so it may be regulated properly and the living conditions of these workers can improve. Not owning up to how we need slavery, meaning you/d-bags like you trying to stay on your moral high horse, and pretend to be disgusted by the practice while stuffing your lives full of products offered by slaves means society turns a blind eye to these people, and they are treated as well as their owners want.

(August 17, 2015 at 9:17 am)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: Ok. Two things. While I expect we all know more or less what you'd say, I have yet to see you adequately defend the assertion that we all benefit from modern slavery, or how that would be in any way acceptable even if it is demonstrably true (which it may or may not be, honestly). Second, this right here:

(August 17, 2015 at 8:47 am)Drich Wrote: Either way your identification of a fallacy in my work is still wrong. I gave no such argument that concludes a hypothesis. I stated a fact. We all currently benefit from modern day slavery. If we say all slavery is wrong we are in trouble. Meaning we are hypocrits. By 'we all' I am acourse referring to the people who say all slavery is wrong.

is your argument from consequence fallacy. Your assertion is that if we admit slavery is immoral, the consequences are that we will be hypocrites (which is how you spell that, by the way), therefore we should not admit slavery is wrong. Your reasoning is fallacious, the reasons behind your reasoning are fallacious, and the tie you wore to church yesterday is fallacious.

Regardless of how much modern society (myself included) may or may not rely on modern forms of slavery, humans should still be working to eradicate all forms of slavery from the globe because slavery is wrong. The fact that a bunch of people are still doing it doesn't make it ok.

The thing is we can't. We do not have a working model of any society that does not have a slave labor force hard at work providing affordable goods to the masses. No matter how you chop it up, if you are using any type of monetary system someone has to work for free or nearly free to give our money system any value. that's an ugly truth, but truth none the less. If we are were equal with equal shares of everything, nothing would have value. it is in the accumiulation of valuables/desirables that makes them more rare and thus valuable. Like for instance if everyone made 15.00 an hour, then the dollar looses its current value, and more will be needed to buy the things we put value on.

I don't think making us out to be hypocrites is a valid defence of biblical morality. It's a completely irrelevant deflection.

I'm not sure why Drich would even need to defend the bible, with no free will it makes no difference how moral or immoral anything in the bible is; it can't affect our actions. They have been planned out in advance for us.

Biblical morality= Accountablity/Rules and regulation on the treatment of slaves

No matter how much you want to bock at that, modern slavery= no rules at all no accountability because modern slaves aren't even recognized as slaves.

So now modern working conditions are worse than biblical slavery?

I think I'm done here.

This is one area where I believe the belief in a judgmental, supernatural being might be of some positive use.
I have a rather mechanistic view of human activity.
The capitalist system we have, among others, constitutes a positive feedback loop in which money and power serve to attract money and power.  Positive feedback systems diverge until the measured parameter (in this case wealth vs poverty) hits some limit, IOTW goes to the rails.
For capitalism, limiting factors include a squeamishness to view suffering of the poor and some progressive pressures to limit wealth accumulation.
The most successful capitalists are readily able to suppress and ignore the former.  These are sociopaths and very wealthy.
Because they can use their wealth to corrupt the political system, they are generally only internally constrained.
Belief that they will be punished in an afterlife helps curb their excesses.
It doesn't have to be true.

(August 17, 2015 at 10:31 am)Drich Wrote: Biblical morality= Accountablity/Rules and regulation on the treatment of slaves

No matter how much you want to bock at that, modern slavery= no rules at all no accountability because modern slaves aren't even recognized as slaves.

That however doesn't say that biblical morality is right. It merely says that our current system is wrong. To which I agree.

(August 17, 2015 at 10:31 am)Drich Wrote: Biblical morality= Accountablity/Rules and regulation on the treatment of slaves

No matter how much you want to bock at that, modern slavery= no rules at all no accountability because modern slaves aren't even recognized as slaves.

Exodus 21:

20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.

21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.



Tell us, Drich, in what country is it legal to beat one's workers?  According to the Bible, it okay to beat one's slaves so severely that they die two days later.  In what country is that legal today?

(August 17, 2015 at 9:36 am)Drich Wrote: Bottom line we need slavery.

Technically, we don't need slavery.
Our current lifestyle is dependent on it, but lifestyles can change... they must change to accommodate the future worldwide educated workforce.
A decade ago, china was the grand destiny for outsourcing... nowadays, as the chinese become educated and wealthy, they are demanding better wages - and getting them, slowly and painfully, but getting them.
And some companies are (thinking of) moving on to some other place where the workforce is still cheap - Africa.... Give it a few decades and see what happens there, too.
Then, where can the big companies turn to? the moon?

In the meantime, oil will become a scarcer commodity and its price too will rise... along with electricity... oh my...