One apologetic, I forget who, said magic is real. But what God does is not magic. Magic is like evil sorcery or something that humans do, and God does some other special thing which isn't magic. (But of course he doesn't explain what the actual difference is.)

If you believe in religion, you're much more likely to accept other nonsense uncritically.

(August 18, 2015 at 11:30 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: God is not complex. He is simple. No parts. God is pure spirit; there is nothing material about him.

So the creator and governor of the entire cosmos, able to know the mind of every living being within it and is omni-absofuckinglutely everything isn't complex. Please, do go on...

Quote:And no, it does not follow that something outside of creation had to have been designed or created.

Ah, special pleading...dull. Again - an omniscient being is the very definition of complexity. And 'outside' of creation makes absolutely no sense except to those who possess the capacity for extraordinary cognitive dissonance such as yourself.

Quote:True. As far as it goes. Science deals with the material. See above for why science will not have anything to say about God even in the next few centuries.

The moment we get some actual fucking evidence for The Divine Dictator, you can be asured the entire scientific community will be raving over it.

Quote:But what you have faith in is not just science but scientism. That's a belief system, plain and simple.

Bless your little cottons. Randy, just because you've surrendered your ability to think for yourself, it doesn't mean everyone is part of a fucked up groupthink like you are. There is no such thing as 'scientism'. There is the scientific process, which among other things has allowed us to go to the moon, birthed all of the technology we use today (including the device you're currently using to distribute your manure), unlock answers about the nature of reaility and the origins of life. If enough observable, testable, verifiable evidence is accumulated that supports a hypothesis, then it becomes accepted scientific knowledge.

Whereas you and others like you preach whatever the ancient, utterly obselete morally dubious collection of fairy tales tells you to do. Good job!

Christians are in more denial about magic being in their book than GRRM is in his.

Just get to the White Walkers, and stop trying to be a historical text because you're not!

(August 19, 2015 at 12:43 am)Redbeard The Pink Wrote:

(August 19, 2015 at 12:32 am)Randy Carson Wrote: In the course of 2,000 years of Christianity, do you think that God's omnipotence has been referred to as magic by Christians?

If not, why not?

No, I've noticed they tend to use the word "miracle," but Thena's right. They're magic tricks. It's the same thing.

Magic: the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces

Miracle: an event not explicable by natural or scientific laws. Such an event may be attributed to a supernatural being (god or gods), a miracle worker, a saint or a religious leader.

Miracles are nothing more than a god-people term for white magic. They could just call it white magic, but then they'd be admitting their connections to paganism, so they've found a more suitable word for an equally ridiculous idea.

There's that word "tricks" again. And again, you've ignored the fact that words have connotations associated with them that go beyond the dictionary definition.

There are lots of articles on the Internet describing the distinctions between miracles and magic; here is one targeted at middle-schoolers:

What is the Difference Between Miracles and Magic?
by Digger Doug
http://www.apologeticspress.org/Discover...ticle=2173

Dear reader,

First, magic can be used just for fun. Miracles were not just “for fun.” They were visible signs that a person was acting or speaking on God’s behalf (read Exodus 3:12-4:14).

Second, magic can be used to deceive. Miracles, on the other hand, were never used for deception. Rather, they were used to teach important spiritual lessons (like when Elijah asked God to perform a miracle on Mount Carmel to show that Baal was a false god—1 Kings 18:20-40). Miracles also were used to help people (like when Jesus healed a blind man—John 9:1-41).

Third, magic isn’t “real.” When a magician makes a woman “disappear,” she doesn’t really disappear into thin air. But miracles were real—very real! When Moses stretched his rod across the Red Sea and caused the waters to part so the Israelites could walk across on dry land, it was no trick. Moses (through God’s power) really did what the Bible says he did (read Exodus 13:14-22). When Pharaoh’s army followed the Israelites, and Moses caused the waters to come back together to destroy the Egyptians, the soldiers and horses really died (read Exodus 13:26-28).

Fourth, magic is intended to entertain us and show us the magician’s talent. That is not true of miracles. Their purpose never was to entertain an audience or to demonstrate how talented a person was. They were performed in order to show people the way to heaven.

(August 18, 2015 at 11:30 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: [...]
God is not complex. He is simple. No parts. God is pure spirit; there is nothing material about him.
[...]

Laughable. How can you make judgments on complexity of beings which you can't possibly perceive, examine or test?
"Parts"? Is that your best measure of complexity? lol Seriously - that's kind of like a plumber saying that a micro-chip is not complex, because there aren't any pipes in it...

It's just made-up simplistic nonsense, hopeful speculation, that only satisfies simple minds of primates, in which it originated.

(August 18, 2015 at 11:30 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: And no, it does not follow that something outside of creation had to have been designed or created.

Very well then - prove the existence of one thing "outside of creation" and I'll grant you the existence of god.
...
Didn't think so...

(August 19, 2015 at 7:50 am)Iroscato Wrote:

(August 18, 2015 at 11:30 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: God is not complex. He is simple. No parts. God is pure spirit; there is nothing material about him.

So the creator and governor of the entire cosmos, able to know the mind of every living being within it and is omni-absofuckinglutely everything isn't complex. Please, do go on...

I could go on, but you should stop...and read a good book. Here's one that covers this topic:



Here's a helpful outline of the book:

https://richardconlin.wordpress.com/2014...pters-1-6/

After reading two sentences of the outline....Citation, please. For everything.

Oh, theology - philosophy's barren cousin...

(August 19, 2015 at 7:56 am)ToriJ Wrote: Christians are in more denial about magic being in their book than GRRM is in his.

Just get to the White Walkers, and stop trying to be a historical text because you're not!

Not historical. Is that what atheist Bart Ehrman, professor at UNC - Chapel Hill has said?

"Serious historians of the early Christian movement—all of them—have spent many years preparing to be experts in their field. Just to read the ancient sources requires expertise in a range of ancient languages: Greek, Hebrew, Latin, and often Aramaic, Syriac, and Coptic, not to mention the modern languages of scholarship (for example, German and French). And that is just for starters. Expertise requires years of patiently examining ancient texts and a thorough grounding in the history and culture of Greek and Roman antiquity, the religions of the ancient Mediterranean world, both pagan and Jewish, knowledge of the history of the Christian church and the development of its social life and theology, and, well, lots of other things. It is striking that virtually everyone who has spent all the years needed to attain these qualifications is convinced that Jesus of Nazareth was a real historical figure." (Ehrman, Bart, Did Jesus Exist?, 5-6.)

He also wrote:

“It is a historical fact that some of Jesus’ followers came to believe that he had been raised from the dead soon after his execution. We know some of these believers by name; one of them, the apostle Paul, claims quite plainly to have seen Jesus alive after his death. Thus, for the historian, Christianity begins after the death of Jesus, not with the resurrection itself, but with the belief in the resurrection” (Bart Ehrman, The New Testament: A Historical Introduction to the Early Christian Writings. Third Edition. New York, Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2004, 276).

(August 19, 2015 at 8:18 am)Randy Carson Wrote:

(August 19, 2015 at 7:50 am)Iroscato Wrote: So the creator and governor of the entire cosmos, able to know the mind of every living being within it and is omni-absofuckinglutely everything isn't complex. Please, do go on...

I could go on, but you should stop...and read a good book. Here's one that covers this topic:



Here's a helpful outline of the book:

https://richardconlin.wordpress.com/2014...pters-1-6/

Noted, thank you. Would've preferred an actual answer instead of reinforcing my suspicion that you're incapable of thinking for yourself, but meh.