(October 10, 2015 at 12:03 pm)Randys brother Wrote: "The Bible is not consistent" you believe that but don't try to get me to believe it because I won't.

Afraid to test your convictions?!?

(October 10, 2015 at 12:05 pm)Randys brother Wrote: You have this idea that one cannot follow religion and science,but this is not true many follow religion and science.

Not if they take the Bible literally, they don't. The truth is more like this: many who do science belong to a religious tradition or institution. That doesn't mean they believe the Bible is in accord with science or vice versa.

(October 10, 2015 at 12:03 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:

(October 10, 2015 at 11:52 am)drfuzzy Wrote: Sorry I'm late to the post.  The OP seems to state, in a nutshell, that when a genetic predisposition toward homosexuality is confirmed, the Xtians will have to accept gay marriage and homosexuals in their congregation.  

We can only hope.  But we know how resistant to change they are.

And yes, I think the day is coming. Physiological differences (not caused by lifestyle, drug use, etc.,) have already been noted.  And why is it that they ignore the fact that there is evidence of homosexual behavior throughout nature?

Yes, sooner or later, science will tell the xtians that here is another thing they're not allowed to hate.  I wonder what they will choose after that?  Oh . . . silly me . . . atheists!!!                  

Agreed. I find the pheromone experiments fairly clear-cut. 

Dr. Wen Zhou Wrote:A new study published this month by Wen Zhou of the Chinese Academy of Sciences found a connection between a person’s self-identified sexual orientation and their ability to react to different pheromones. Specifically, participants with an orientation to men (straight women and gay men) responded to male pheromones but not female pheromones.

The experiment exposed participants to either androstadienone (found in male semen and sweat) or estratetraenol (present in female urine) and tested to see how it impacted their gender presentations of a simulated person walking toward them. In all cases, the pheromones were disguised by cloves, so participants were unaware of which pheromone (if any) they were smelling.

Straight women and gay men are aroused by the pheromones of men.

Straight men and gay women are aroused by the pheromones of women.

Bisexuals of both sexes react to both. (And some lesbians showed mixed reactions, as well.)

I don't think there's a gene  for homosexuality, per se,  but I have little doubt we'll find hox-gene pathways in which certain timing and/or duration of gene-switching that occurs during the two major "puberties" we undergo (one isn't really puberty; it happens in the womb late in gestation, but is a lot like puberty in that whole new sets of genes get "switched on" by controller-genes, and it has a huge effect on outcome, depending on when each of the sequence is activated, and for how long) impacts the "Kinsey-scale-settings" of the adult. It's just too complex to fully map, at present, since so many variables are involved.

As I've noted before;

one of my earliest and most vivid 'gayish' experiences was when I was in third grade and noticed the junior high boys smelled wonderful after PE class.

As for pheromones, maybe there were other forces at play, but a particular boyfriend of mine seemed to be unusually or 'perfectly' balanced scent-wise, and in protracted make out (and beyond) sessions, the effect was as if I were high or intoxicated.  Not every man does that, I recall an otherwise very pleasant and eager man in Wisconsin whose scent was 100% incompatible, unfortunately, and there seems to be gradations of compatibility, or maybe it's a mix and some get closer to the correct ratio and some further ?

Damn, if you straight guys experience something similar to what I've noted while, ahem, noshing the clam, there are some profoundly lucky ladies in the world.

[shudder]

(October 11, 2015 at 12:28 am)vorlon13 Wrote: As I've noted before;

one of my earliest and most vivid 'gayish' experiences was when I was in third grade and noticed the junior high boys smelled wonderful after PE class.

As for pheromones, maybe there were other forces at play, but a particular boyfriend of mine seemed to be unusually or 'perfectly' balanced scent-wise, and in protracted make out (and beyond) sessions, the effect was as if I were high or intoxicated.  Not every man does that, I recall an otherwise very pleasant and eager man in Wisconsin whose scent was 100% incompatible, unfortunately, and there seems to be gradations of compatibility, or maybe it's a mix and some get closer to the correct ratio and some further ?

Damn, if you straight guys experience something similar to what I've noted while, ahem, noshing the clam, there are some profoundly lucky ladies in the world.

[shudder]

Oh, most definitely. And it's a gradient with women for me, too. Few really move  me in the way you describe.

But my Beloved... ooohh man... her scent just floors me.

If I kiss her skin, especially around her neck/ear/jawline, the combination of a tiny bit of my saliva and her pheromones is enough to make me almost swoon. Literally. Utterly intoxicating.

There are no hammers in homosexuality.

Only dildos.

(October 10, 2015 at 11:24 am)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:

(October 10, 2015 at 10:49 am)Randys brother Wrote: Ha ha got ya!

When you say true true,that includes you believing through faith.

RB - He pretends to worship Gwyneth Paltrow. Perhaps he actually does  worship Gwynnie. Who knows? Not my place to judge. Or yours.

But I'm pretty sure it doesn't involve faith, nor is it a "gotcha".

http://atheistforums.org/thread-37097.html

^story of my faith. Actually worship my Gwynnies. It's another story. 

(October 10, 2015 at 4:06 am)loganonekenobi Wrote: I had a thought (this is dangerous I know).

to the Bible homosexuality is a sin. A sin meaning that it is a choice by the offending human.... not the force of God.

So if that be the case then homosexuality is in no part biological since that would be God's doing.

as far as I know we as humans do not purposely align the fetus to be a certain gender or sexual orientation. Not yet anyway (Gatica!)

Yet there is some growing evidence that sexual orientation is at least in part biological.

http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/...idence.htm

now i'm not saying it's conclusive by any means but the evidence is getting stronger in this direction.

By that logic then God is at least in some way responsible for homosexuality.

If that also be the case then this is strong evidence that homophobic men wrote the Bible. A God of any reasonable thought would not create something then tell others to destroy it unless that god was truly evil.

Now I make the connection to gay marriage and it seems a lot more clear why the Christians are against any recognition of any sort of gay rights. It would undermine the very idea that the Bible is the word of God. which of course we fully understand.

Please give me your thoughts on this matter and maybe give me different directions to explore on this subject.

Your arguement fails for two reasons. One you misidentifying/define sin

Sin is any thought or activity that is outside the expressed will of God.

Two in order for your conclusion about homosexuality being defined in the bible as a sin, you have to assume the all heterosexual sex has been permitted.

Meaning if one could have sex just based on heterosexual want it would be "ok" then your arguement would make sense. Because only then you can say sexual orientation was specifically targeted. This however is not the case.

I don't know if you are aware or not, but their is a strict probation on ALL sexual activity outside the confines of a sanctified marriage. This means that everyone is to suppress all sexual urges and desires in word thought, and deed. Unless one is in a sanctified marriage with another then all sex is off limits.

This is in direct violation of all of our basic/primal desires or needs. Not just the homosexual. That make all homosexual activity a sexual sin just like any other. No worse no better. As such it faces the same restrictions and demand for atonement and repentance as does every other sexual sin.

(October 11, 2015 at 10:47 am)Drich Wrote: Two in order for your conclusion about homosexuality being defined in the bible as a sin, you have to assume the all heterosexual sex has been permitted.

Meaning if one could have sex just based on heterosexual want it would be "ok" then your arguement would make sense. Because only then you can say sexual orientation was specifically targeted. This however is not the case.

I don't know if you are aware or not, but their is a strict probation on ALL sexual activity outside the confines of a sanctified marriage. This means that everyone is to suppress all sexual urges and desires in word thought, and deed. Unless one is in a sanctified marriage with another then all sex is off limits.

This is in direct violation of all of our basic/primal desires or needs. Not just the homosexual. That make all homosexual activity a sexual sin just like any other. No worse no better. As such it faces the same restrictions and demand for atonement and repentance as does every other sexual sin.

Well, that explains all the crowds of Christians I've seen, carrying signs protesting premarital heterosexual sex!

That explains the Christians at my door, telling me I'm going to hell because I have two kids with my fiancee, to whom I am not yet married.

That explains why they constantly call me horrible names and try to beat me up because I'm unmarried yet sexually active.

Man, I was really starting to worry that I had it a lot worse than the homosexuals, with all the attention we fornicators have been getting from the Christers.

I just tried being gay. It was great!

The random guy I tried it on didn't seem to like it though. Probably should have asked him first.

I wonder if I did it right?