Hi All, I just want to shoot this question. In Christianity or any God fearing religion your forgiven for your sins. How can that be justified with ones conscious. Let alone a Devine entity. Say for instance someone commits a murder for any reason. How can anything forgive you for that under any circumstances. People will always take the easy way out or do the wrong thing just because there is the comfort of forgiveness. I am a practicing Buddhist and I believe in Karma. There should not be any escape from that. Most of my friends who believe in God has told me they have been forgiven for the sins that they have done. I find that ridiculous and how gullible people can be. Some sins go to the very extreme. Not things like lying, stealing etc.

What are your thoughts.

It is really stupid. I think they have to keep up this idea that all can be forgiven in order to try and recruit as many people as possible into the cult. If you couldn't be forgiven after a certain point, they have blown their chances.

Forgiveness from an uninvolved third party means nothing.

I'm with rob on this one. Substitutive forgiveness is just as silly as substitutive punishment - in the one, God forgives you for exercising the free will he allegedly gave, in the other, 'Jesus died for your sins'.

Of course, these notions are no sillier than karma, so I suppose it's a wash.

Boru

forgiveness for everything = warm fuzzy feeling = more followers

Simple!!

Exactly. I just fail to see how human minds work. Is it brainwashing from the start, Is it something to do with DNA or something like a hormone. Some people still believe that things like passing exams is with help from god. And they just believe it just like that. How can you have a relationship with Jesus or god? I have this known person who was a prostitute dealer in his 20s. He married a born again and he converted. The fool now tells that god personally spoke to him and forgave for his past sins. Apparently if you take Jesus into your heart and believe he is the savoir your sins in the past are all forgiven . If all mankind goes through to fantasy it will be utter chaos. Why cant they use their eyes (an organ which developed from the time of bacteria) and just look around. Why are there rich people and poor people, Why do people suffer from cancer , What right does their god have to do all these injustice. and if heaven or wherever its called is paradise why don't they kill themselves and go there without sinning on this planet.

(October 25, 2015 at 9:26 am)miaharun Wrote: Exactly. I just fail to see how human minds work. Is it brainwashing from the start, Is it something to do with DNA or something like a hormone. Some people still believe that things like passing exams is with help from god. And they just believe it just like that. How can you have a relationship with Jesus or god? I have this known person who was a prostitute dealer in his 20s. He married a born again and he converted. The fool now tells that god personally spoke to him and forgave for his past sins. Apparently if you take Jesus into your heart and believe he is the savoir your sins in the past are all forgiven .  If all mankind goes through to fantasy it will be utter chaos. Why cant they use their eyes (an organ which developed from the time of bacteria) and just look around. Why are there rich people and poor people, Why do people suffer from cancer , What right does their god have to do all these injustice. and if heaven or wherever its called is paradise why don't they kill themselves and go there without sinning on this planet.

Well, considering that you believe in Karma, why don't you squat in lotus and starve yourself to death, so that you will be reborn into a higher state of being?

Boru

(October 25, 2015 at 9:30 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(October 25, 2015 at 9:26 am)miaharun Wrote: Exactly. I just fail to see how human minds work. Is it brainwashing from the start, Is it something to do with DNA or something like a hormone. Some people still believe that things like passing exams is with help from god. And they just believe it just like that. How can you have a relationship with Jesus or god? I have this known person who was a prostitute dealer in his 20s. He married a born again and he converted. The fool now tells that god personally spoke to him and forgave for his past sins. Apparently if you take Jesus into your heart and believe he is the savoir your sins in the past are all forgiven .  If all mankind goes through to fantasy it will be utter chaos. Why cant they use their eyes (an organ which developed from the time of bacteria) and just look around. Why are there rich people and poor people, Why do people suffer from cancer , What right does their god have to do all these injustice. and if heaven or wherever its called is paradise why don't they kill themselves and go there without sinning on this planet.

Well, considering that you believe in Karma, why don't you squat in lotus and starve yourself to death, so that you will be reborn into a higher state of being?

Boru

In reality Boru, in hinduism from where it originates, "karma" is not at all the concept of rebirth, nor does it have anything to do with it. That is total nonsense, stemming from a particular portion of "Bhagvad Gita" which is a cherry-picked subset of the "Mahabharata" a mythological story book. "Karma" simply means "action" and the concept is basically "one suffers the consequences of his or her actions".

Good sir, My beliefs and my questions are two different things. In my humble opinion my beliefs are applicable to everyone on this planet. It simple cause and effect. Laws of nature. No one or anything can tell you your going to hell or heaven if you don't believe in it To address your question i have no intention of starving to death. I wish to live this life righteous (morally) , do good the world and die.

You know there might be a simpler, less human hating explanation for this, lol.  As a rule, we imagine forgiveness for sin because we are decent beings.  We feel guilt, shame and remorse when we've wronged someone (or even when we -think- we've wronged someone).   These experiences are painful and lingering, and so an offer of release can be appealing.  We do more than -just- imagine it, of course.  We offer it, we arrange for it, we do work.  

Consider this.  Why do people try frantically to escape when you have their thumb under a screw?  Are they just looking for the easy way out?   The implication here is less than subtle, and..I think, as inapplicable to this scenario as it is to the christian focus on forgiveness.  Perhaps christians focus on this because things like remorse, guilt, shame, and forgiveness are important to human beings -regardless of whether or not they are important to a god, or there is any divine offer at hand.  Isn't your own concept of karma (btw, not "simple cause and effect"...we have a term for simple cause and effect..."simple cause and effect") a way of institutionalizing the very same concepts?  

Believers often think that their beliefs are applicable to everyone on the planet, btw, it's one of their less endearing quirks.

Quote:In reality Boru, in hinduism from where it originates, "karma" is not at all the concept of rebirth, nor does it have anything to do with it. That is total nonsense, stemming from a particular portion of "Bhagvad Gita" which is a cherry-picked subset of the "Mahabharata" a mythological story book. "Karma" simply means "action" and the concept is basically "one suffers the consequences of his or her actions".

Perfectly correct, but the poster I addressed specified being a Buddhist. In Buddhism, karma is what determines the cycle of rebirth. Had I been speaking to a Hindu, I would not have made the comment.

Boru