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RE: Are all atheists this ill-informed about religion?
October 29, 2015 at 11:12 am
(October 29, 2015 at 11:06 am)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: No. Try a legal definition, since that's what we're talking about: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionar...risdiction
Jurisdiction generally describes any authority over a certain area or certain persons. In the law, jurisdiction sometimes refers to a particular geographic area containing a defined legal authority. For example, the federal government is a jurisdiction unto itself. Its power spans the entire United States. Each state is also a jurisdiction unto itself, with the power to pass its own laws.
OK, god has jurisdiction over everyone, everywhere.
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RE: Are all atheists this ill-informed about religion?
October 29, 2015 at 11:15 am
Says you and your book. I think, as do most of us, that this power is illegitimate as defined. Particularly since I'm an American and I believe in the concept of "consent of the governed". Your described deity has clear Conflict of Interest issues, which would cause a legitimate judge to recuse himself, and despite your claims of authority, I find nothing in your scriptures that define this being as a good judge, but rather a petty, jealous, tyrannical monster who has a moral system that is repugnant to my own sense of morality.
See my signature.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
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RE: Are all atheists this ill-informed about religion?
October 29, 2015 at 11:16 am
(October 29, 2015 at 11:11 am)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: In his book A History of Political Theory, George Sabine collected the views of many political theorists on consent of the governed. He notes the idea mentioned in 1433 by Nicholas of Cusa in De Concordantia Catholica. In 1579 Theodore Beza wrote Vindiciae contra Tyrannos which Sabine paraphrases: "The people lay down the conditions which the king is bound to fulfill. Hence they are bound to obedience only conditionally, namely, upon receiving the protection of just and lawful government…the power of the ruler is delegated by the people and continues only with their consent." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consent_of_the_governed
Yep, some people hold to consent of the governed. That doesn't make it objectively correct. And regarding god, you have the additional issue that he's above us. We generally don't ask cows if they consent to being slaughtered.
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RE: Are all atheists this ill-informed about religion?
October 29, 2015 at 11:20 am
(October 29, 2015 at 11:15 am)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Says you and your book. I think, as do most of us, that this power is illegitimate as defined. Particularly since I'm an American and I believe in the concept of "consent of the governed". Your described deity has clear Conflict of Interest issues, which would cause a legitimate judge to recuse himself, and despite your claims of authority, I find nothing in your scriptures that define this being as a good judge, but rather a petty, jealous, tyrannical monster who has a moral system that is repugnant to my own sense of morality.
Your opinion is noted. God's is different. In the end, what matters is who can enforce it. You'll cry that this is a might makes right argument, and it is. I'm pragmatic, and in the end, that's all that matters. As noted before, prisoners frequently think their guilt/sentencing is unfair, but as they don't have the keys, it doesn't really matter.
Quote:See my signature.
I have avatars and signatures turned off.
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RE: Are all atheists this ill-informed about religion?
October 29, 2015 at 11:21 am
(This post was last modified: October 29, 2015 at 11:22 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Right..so, since we're clearly capable of enforcing our laws...and god doesn't seem to have ever managed to enforce any of his - guess that means your god's laws don't matter, huh?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Are all atheists this ill-informed about religion?
October 29, 2015 at 11:22 am
(October 29, 2015 at 11:20 am)alpha male Wrote: Your opinion is noted. God's is different. In the end, what matters is who can enforce it. You'll cry that this is a might makes right argument, and it is. I'm pragmatic, and in the end, that's all that matters. As noted before, prisoners frequently think their guilt/sentencing is unfair, but as they don't have the keys, it doesn't really matter.
Quote:See my signature.
I have avatars and signatures turned off.
Sorry... I didn't even know that was an option! Here you go:
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
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RE: Are all atheists this ill-informed about religion?
October 29, 2015 at 11:25 am
Me too. I refuse, he can fuck off with that garbage. I'll pay my own parking tickets.
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RE: Are all atheists this ill-informed about religion?
October 29, 2015 at 11:30 am
(October 29, 2015 at 11:16 am)alpha male Wrote: We generally don't ask cows if they consent to being slaughtered.
Why can I not get this song out of my head?
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RE: Are all atheists this ill-informed about religion?
October 29, 2015 at 11:32 am
(October 29, 2015 at 11:22 am)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Sorry... I didn't even know that was an option! Here you go: Makes it a lot easier to read, especially if you're at work and using a small window.
Quote:A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
You're entitled to your opinion. That's all it is. Governments have different opinions on crime and justice. People have different opinions. Opinions change over time. Heck, an act that's consensual sex in one place might be statutory rape 10 yards away. The act is the same, the only difference is the differing opinions of differing lawmakers. In the end, the issue is, who has the power to enforce their opinion?
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RE: Are all atheists this ill-informed about religion?
October 29, 2015 at 11:49 am
(October 29, 2015 at 11:12 am)alpha male Wrote: OK, god has jurisdiction over everyone, everywhere.
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