Are all atheists this ill-informed about religion?

[John V]

No. Try a legal definition, since that's what we're talking about: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionar...risdiction

Jurisdiction generally describes any authority over a certain area or certain persons. In the law, jurisdiction sometimes refers to a particular geographic area containing a defined legal authority. For example, the federal government is a jurisdiction unto itself. Its power spans the entire United States. Each state is also a jurisdiction unto itself, with the power to pass its own laws.

OK, god has jurisdiction over everyone, everywhere.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

Says you and your book. I think, as do most of us, that this power is illegitimate as defined. Particularly since I'm an American and I believe in the concept of "consent of the governed". Your described deity has clear Conflict of Interest issues, which would cause a legitimate judge to recuse himself, and despite your claims of authority, I find nothing in your scriptures that define this being as a good judge, but rather a petty, jealous, tyrannical monster who has a moral system that is repugnant to my own sense of morality.

See my signature.

[John V]

In his book A History of Political Theory, George Sabine collected the views of many political theorists on consent of the governed. He notes the idea mentioned in 1433 by Nicholas of Cusa in De Concordantia Catholica. In 1579 Theodore Beza wrote Vindiciae contra Tyrannos which Sabine paraphrases: "The people lay down the conditions which the king is bound to fulfill. Hence they are bound to obedience only conditionally, namely, upon receiving the protection of just and lawful government…the power of the ruler is delegated by the people and continues only with their consent." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consent_of_the_governed

Yep, some people hold to consent of the governed. That doesn't make it objectively correct. And regarding god, you have the additional issue that he's above us. We generally don't ask cows if they consent to being slaughtered.

[John V]

Says you and your book. I think, as do most of us, that this power is illegitimate as defined. Particularly since I'm an American and I believe in the concept of "consent of the governed". Your described deity has clear Conflict of Interest issues, which would cause a legitimate judge to recuse himself, and despite your claims of authority, I find nothing in your scriptures that define this being as a good judge, but rather a petty, jealous, tyrannical monster who has a moral system that is repugnant to my own sense of morality.

Your opinion is noted. God's is different. In the end, what matters is who can enforce it. You'll cry that this is a might makes right argument, and it is. I'm pragmatic, and in the end, that's all that matters. As noted before, prisoners frequently think their guilt/sentencing is unfair, but as they don't have the keys, it doesn't really matter.

See my signature.

I have avatars and signatures turned off.

[The Grand Nudger]

Right..so, since we're clearly capable of enforcing our laws...and god doesn't seem to have ever managed to enforce any of his - guess that means your god's laws don't matter, huh?

[TheRocketSurgeon]

Your opinion is noted. God's is different. In the end, what matters is who can enforce it. You'll cry that this is a might makes right argument, and it is. I'm pragmatic, and in the end, that's all that matters. As noted before, prisoners frequently think their guilt/sentencing is unfair, but as they don't have the keys, it doesn't really matter.

See my signature.

I have avatars and signatures turned off.

Sorry... I didn't even know that was an option! Here you go:

A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost

---

I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.

[robvalue]

Me too. I refuse, he can fuck off with that garbage. I'll pay my own parking tickets.

[Hmmm?]

We generally don't ask cows if they consent to being slaughtered.

Why can I not get this song out of my head?

[John V]

Sorry... I didn't even know that was an option! Here you go:

Makes it a lot easier to read, especially if you're at work and using a small window.

A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost

---

I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.

You're entitled to your opinion. That's all it is. Governments have different opinions on crime and justice. People have different opinions. Opinions change over time. Heck, an act that's consensual sex in one place might be statutory rape 10 yards away. The act is the same, the only difference is the differing opinions of differing lawmakers. In the end, the issue is, who has the power to enforce their opinion?

[abaris]

OK, god has jurisdiction over everyone, everywhere.