(January 7, 2016 at 12:52 am)Godschild Wrote:

(January 6, 2016 at 10:28 pm)Old Baby Wrote: I "came out" to one of my best friends last Sunday about my non-belief.  She seemed understanding but very concerned.  We talked for about 3 hours and then parted ways.  Tonight I called her because I was concerned about how she was taking the news.  She became emotional and started preaching to me about how I was like Adam in the Garden of Eden, who didn't want to submit to God, so I've been thrown out of the Garden and now I can no longer hear God's voice.  She said that Jesus Christ is my only answer now, and that I would never have my questions answered until I submitted to Jesus Christ because he's the only way back to God.  I calmly listened and then said, "Ok well thanks for the witnessing", then politely said goodnight.  

I know she means well but it still hurts because I feel like our relationship is irrevocably broken.  I explained in depth why I began to struggle and question my beliefs, but she did not acknowledge the rationality behind this.  The idea is that I'm completely to blame for my failure to believe, that I'm unreasonable for asking God to show himself to me, and now I'm the only one who can repair my relationship with God by throwing myself at Jesus' feet.  I told her that I didn't want anything to change between us but she said that she couldn't promise it wouldn't, but she's praying for me.  

She told me that she had always looked up to me, but now I only feel the judgment.

Maybe your feeling of judgement from her is actually guilt on your part. You are the one who chose to change not her, so why wouldn't you expect her to react differently towards you, it's only natural.

GC

I never chose to change.  I never chose to not believe.  In fact, my immediate response was to try to start believing again.  It didn't work.

We've been telling GC and others that atheism is not a choice ever since I signed up, and apparently long before I joined. Some people just can't grasp that concept.

Or won't.

If they really think it's a choice, then it must also be a choice to believe in God, which means they don't really believe it at all.

(January 6, 2016 at 10:28 pm)Old Baby Wrote: I "came out" to one of my best friends last Sunday about my non-belief.  She seemed understanding but very concerned.  We talked for about 3 hours and then parted ways.  Tonight I called her because I was concerned about how she was taking the news.  She became emotional and started preaching to me about how I was like Adam in the Garden of Eden, who didn't want to submit to God, so I've been thrown out of the Garden and now I can no longer hear God's voice.  She said that Jesus Christ is my only answer now, and that I would never have my questions answered until I submitted to Jesus Christ because he's the only way back to God.  I calmly listened and then said, "Ok well thanks for the witnessing", then politely said goodnight.  

I know she means well but it still hurts because I feel like our relationship is irrevocably broken.  I explained in depth why I began to struggle and question my beliefs, but she did not acknowledge the rationality behind this.  The idea is that I'm completely to blame for my failure to believe, that I'm unreasonable for asking God to show himself to me, and now I'm the only one who can repair my relationship with God by throwing myself at Jesus' feet.  I told her that I didn't want anything to change between us but she said that she couldn't promise it wouldn't, but she's praying for me.  

She told me that she had always looked up to me, but now I only feel the judgment.

In my experience, that's the norm.  That's what you're going to get.  I had a similar experience with a friend that I know to be a non-literalist, non-judgemental, "god loves everybody", open-minded sort of xtian, and a scientist.  I thought that a medical researcher might at least be able to understand my skepticism toward many issues that I was having with the Bible and the church.  
WRONG.  I was very, very, wrong.
By questioning, you are questioning the worldview that has governed their entire life.  AND even the xtians that don't believe in hell believe that you're asking for trouble, and condemning yourself to the "horror" of being separated from gawd.  If you challenge their beliefs any further, they will get angry.

I still don't understand this concept of if you don't believe then we shalt shun you. Even when I was a pseudo-believer when I ran across a Wicca Pagan, Hindu, or Atheist it never crossed my mind to dislike or disassociate with them. Now that I'm a certified Atheist I get repercussions all the time. I have a what I thought was a really good friend and every time I go over to his house or we are alone he brings up this I'm going the hell crap and if I know why. He means well, but he doesn't hear me trying to convince him that it is a bunch of hooey and I bet I know more about his one and only good book. That, is one of the problems, they only read one book or at least only that one when it comes to religion. For example, I have one of those USB stereos in my truck with a large number of buttons and I have yet to figure out how to change the FM channel so when the flash drive messes up I get this religious channel from South Carolina and one time it had three teenage girls chanting over and over about how they will only read his book and none other, it was almost scary, wish I had a clip of it. I liked the black antidote, reminded me of a time I put lotion on a black guys back at an apartment complex swimming pool back in 1984 after that no one would associate with me. I recall when they were phasing out colored bathrooms and water fountains and we even had a black maid. Even in grade school race didn't matter to me, like in 4th grade there was only one black and only one Mexican kid and I would play with both and always heard from my white friends that I shouldn't. These bigots, do they feel the same way towards all other religions or just the non religious?

Weirdly, in America, it seems that religious people like those from other religions more than atheists... even though the people from other religions often think they are going to hell, and deserve it, whereas atheists think no such thing.

The problem with this person, and it's a common one, is not able to separate themselves from their beliefs. They can't help but take it personally. It's entirely their issue. I find it a lot, I am insulting Jesus or God, yet someone I'm not even talking to decides to get offended.

I mean, if someone was badmouthing one of my friends, I'd be upset on my friend's behalf. But I wouldn't be personally offended, because it's got nothing to do with me. However, if my friend had super powers and ruled the universe, I would think he could take care of himself and a few insults aren't going to phase him. Offense seems to imply either "god" needs protecting, or else "god" is actually just part of the person themselves, hence personal. (Of course, it's the second, in my opinion.)

(January 7, 2016 at 2:01 pm)robvalue Wrote: Weirdly, in America, it seems that religious people like those from other religions more than atheists... even though the people from other religions often think they are going to hell, and deserve it, whereas atheists think no such thing.

This is because other religions reject an aspect of the foundation (they believe in a god, just not the same one). So in the mind of a Christian, there's still a connection there. However, atheists reject the foundation as a whole, from the ground up. They say, "I do not believe in any god", thus dismissing the entire institution as false. Which the Christian takes a personal slight. 

Quote:The problem with this person, and it's a common one, is not able to separate themselves from their beliefs. They can't help but take it personally. It's entirely their issue. I find it a lot, I am insulting Jesus or God, yet someone I'm not even talking to decides to get offended.

I mean, if someone was badmouthing one of my friends, I'd be upset on my friend's behalf. But I wouldn't be personally offended, because it's got nothing to do with me. However, if my friend had super powers and ruled the universe, I would think he could take care of himself and a few insults aren't going to phase him. Offense seems to imply either "god" needs protecting, or else "god" is actually just part of the person themselves, hence personal. (Of course, it's the second, in my opinion.)

I feel like this DarkMatter video sums up the issue pretty well - 

(January 7, 2016 at 1:47 am)Cecelia Wrote: Anyone who treats someone they consider a friend differently because of their religion isn't really someone worth dealing with.  If people can't accept you for who you are, then I say 'screw em'"

That's exactly it.  I am who I am, if you can't accept me as I am, then I have no need for you, no matter how long you've been in my life.  I'd let the "friend" know that this is you, take it or leave it.

(January 7, 2016 at 2:01 pm)robvalue Wrote: Weirdly, in America, it seems that religious people like those from other religions more than atheists... even though the people from other religions often think they are going to hell, and deserve it, whereas atheists think no such thing.

That's because theists are looking for validation.  So long as others believe in some kind if imaginary friend, they feel self-assured that they're okay.  The second they run into someone who has no need for a theological teddy bear, they freak out because it destroys their internal justification.

(January 7, 2016 at 10:57 am)Old Baby Wrote:

(January 7, 2016 at 12:52 am)Godschild Wrote: Maybe your feeling of judgement from her is actually guilt on your part. You are the one who chose to change not her, so why wouldn't you expect her to react differently towards you, it's only natural.

GC

I never chose to change.  I never chose to not believe.  In fact, my immediate response was to try to start believing again.  It didn't work.

So you're saying you just stopped believing, exactly how's that work?

GC

(January 7, 2016 at 10:59 am)robvalue Wrote: We've been telling GC and others that atheism is not a choice ever since I signed up, and apparently long before I joined. Some people just can't grasp that concept.

Or won't.

If they really think it's a choice, then it must also be a choice to believe in God, which means they don't really believe it at all.

Since discovering my black-hearted unbelief, I have gone back and listened to ministers that I used to enjoy, thinking that maybe there was something they could say to bring me back to my Christian delusion.  One in particular, Paul Washer, said that when he runs into an atheist he just shakes his head and chuckles and says "Friend, you're not an atheist... you may think you're an atheist, but you're not an atheist."  My response to this was, how is that response remotely helpful to someone who struggles with unbelief?  What that basically says is, "Your non-belief doesn't fit neatly into my worldview, so I'm just going to laugh and pretend you don't exist."

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(January 7, 2016 at 9:34 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(January 7, 2016 at 10:57 am)Old Baby Wrote: I never chose to change.  I never chose to not believe.  In fact, my immediate response was to try to start believing again.  It didn't work.

So you're saying you just stopped believing, exactly how's that work?

GC

The whole story is here.