(March 23, 2016 at 3:48 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote:

(March 22, 2016 at 9:43 pm)Godschild Wrote:  If you are losing your faith through the JW's  then why not look at another denomination and find out what they have to say even about the end times. The JW's have altered the Bible they use that would make me wonder what they are trying to hide, just saying.

GC

OP stay far away from GC's shitbaggery. I can tell you it's the wrong religion.

I'm glad it gets under your skin to see Christians trying to help those former ones if we can, means we are doing something correct.

GC

Yeah...trading JW nonsense for baptist nonsense will get no one anywhere.



The problem with all religion



is that none of you ever flush.

(March 23, 2016 at 11:58 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(March 23, 2016 at 3:48 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote: OP stay far away from GC's shitbaggery. I can tell you it's the wrong religion.

I'm glad it gets under your skin to see Christians trying to help those former ones if we can, means we are doing something correct.

GC

It gets under my skin seeing christians trying to poison more minds.
Luckily the Pastafarians are here to guide the lost ones to the truth.
RAmen

(March 23, 2016 at 3:02 pm)Drich Wrote:

(March 23, 2016 at 1:01 pm)Minimalist Wrote: So now, in one brief sentence you have demonstrated that you know fuckall about the Roman Empire, too.

Keep digging, dripshit.  Your stupidity knows no bounds.

http://www.roman-empire.net/maps/empire/...tions.html

I love it when stupid people make stupid claims, that a third source can quickly settle.

Yep your source settles it, you are wrong.  The whole southwest portion of your Roman Empire map (otherwise refered to as The Middle East) is not part of the European Union.  That would be Turkey, Isreal,  and Egypt for starters though Turkey is a candidate. And then there's Switzerland making a hole in the middle and the countries  bordering the Mediterranean on the south.  Plus there are all of those northern countries that are part of the European Union but were not part of the Roman Empire like Sweden, Denmark, Estonia, and Latvia. http://europa.eu/about-eu/countries/memb...countries/

(March 23, 2016 at 11:58 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(March 23, 2016 at 3:48 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote: OP stay far away from GC's shitbaggery. I can tell you it's the wrong religion.

I'm glad it gets under your skin to see Christians trying to help those former ones if we can, means we are doing something correct.

GC

I would never join a religion like baptist. If I did believe in the god of the bible I know he would not approve of people adopting pagan religious customs into their religion. I know that he wouldn't support his people getting involved in political affairs of mankind. I know that Jesus is not god, but his son. I am still proud of JW's in a lot of areas, even if no one on this forum gives them any credit.

And for every one else that dogs religions as being equally as bad

JW's called out religions as a snare over a 100 years ago before it was cool

JW's have been persecuted and killed by Nazis and other political parties for their strict neutrality stance

JW's stay neutral in all political affairs, which means that they aren't trying to push their religious policies into your life through legislation

Of course they aren't perfect and there is the bullshit. But I am not trying to get out of my indoctrination by just having people tell me that all religion is bullshit so you're an idiot if you believe one word of the bible. Even the atheist bible, the skeptics annotated bible, has a section for "good stuff." So my op is simply on the fact that the statues feet simply describes a political world that we live in. I find it interesting that a guy 2500 years ago predicted a government that was ruled by the common people.

Before I give up on this thread, does anyone have any point or comment concerning that?

I don't think the prediction is specific enough to be at all impressive.

But sure, if he did know something about the future, that is interesting. It could have been a lucky guess, a sensible estimate, some random thing he dreamt about, a talking magical frog, a space-time anomaly...

We can't possibly know how he knew this, if he knew anything at all. So it would be interesting but not useful. But I don't think he knew anything beyond the obvious, and was making extremely vague statements which were bound to remotely resemble a state of affairs at some point. Horoscope writers get away with this shit every day, and people think it's real.

(March 24, 2016 at 6:45 am)Won2blv Wrote: JW's stay neutral in all political affairs, which means that they aren't trying to push their religious policies into your life through legislation

Of course they aren't perfect and there is the bullshit. But I am not trying to get out of my indoctrination by just having people tell me that all religion is bullshit so you're an idiot if you believe one word of the bible. Even the atheist bible, the skeptics annotated bible, has a section for "good stuff." So my op is simply on the fact that the statues feet simply describes a political world that we live in. I find it interesting that a guy 2500 years ago predicted a government that was ruled by the common people.

Before I give up on this thread, does anyone have any point or comment concerning that?

Just my own opinion of course but ancient predictions mean nothing to me. One general prediction turning out right doesn't mean any superstitious baggage is about to pop into existence. End times nonsense isn't anything I would give any thought to. The time that is ending is our own little windows. The rest will go on.

(March 23, 2016 at 6:08 pm)Redbeard The Pink Wrote:

(March 23, 2016 at 2:54 pm)Drich Wrote: lol... So if you were fast forwarded in time 4000 years and brought back you'd be able accurately describe the events going on, in a foreign language using words that have not even been coined in the time you wrote them down? Or would you struggle to describe what you saw by taking things familiar to you and added to them to paint an accurate picture in your own language?

Now to someone 4000 years in the future who does not know your language nor customs or even some of the things you described, would then your words not themselves have to be interpreted?

Regardless of how you justify what you're doing, it doesn't change the fact that you're doing it. If a prophecy can be interpreted multiple different ways in different time frames by different readers, then it's basically useless. To be demonstrably correct or incorrect, a prophecy must refer to a specific event (at minimum). Otherwise you're just doing retro-active guesswork, which is basically meaningless. I could do the same sort of force-fitting to make it look like Mother Goose prophesied the JFK assassination, if I really wanted to get creative. This is the same kind of garbage Muslims bring me when they try to say that the Koran references the Big Bang.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I also want to add: the verses which muslims claim to be proof of the Big Bang in the Qur'an is actually very very similiar to verses from a Sumerian creation story that existed long before Christianity and Islam. It ruins the idea that the Qur'an is actually God's words and that it was a prediction. It was just Sumerian nonsense added into the Qur'an.

(March 24, 2016 at 6:45 am)Won2blv Wrote:

(March 23, 2016 at 11:58 pm)Godschild Wrote: I'm glad it gets under your skin to see Christians trying to help those former ones if we can, means we are doing something correct.

GC

I would never join a religion like baptist. If I did believe in the god of the bible I know he would not approve of people adopting pagan religious customs into their religion. I know that he wouldn't support his people getting involved in political affairs of mankind. I know that Jesus is not god, but his son. I am still proud of JW's in a lot of areas, even if no one on this forum gives them any credit.

And for every one else that dogs religions as being equally as bad

JW's called out religions as a snare over a 100 years ago before it was cool

JW's have been persecuted and killed by Nazis and other political parties for their strict neutrality stance

JW's stay neutral in all political affairs, which means that they aren't trying to push their religious policies into your life through legislation

Of course they aren't perfect and there is the bullshit. But I am not trying to get out of my indoctrination by just having people tell me that all religion is bullshit so you're an idiot if you believe one word of the bible. Even the atheist bible, the skeptics annotated bible, has a section for "good stuff." So my op is simply on the fact that the statues feet simply describes a political world that we live in. I find it interesting that a guy 2500 years ago predicted a government that was ruled by the common people.

Before I give up on this thread, does anyone have any point or comment concerning that?

You haven't really pointed out anything about the truth of the religion here.


Many religions think of themselves as something other than a religion, so it's not that uncommon for any religion to decry "all religion" as a perversion of the real God's true will or some shit.


Plenty of religions get picked on for what they believe, so that's no indicator of truth, either, especially when the Nazis are the ones doing the picking (they persecuted, like, everyone).


Also, unless Jehovah's Witnesses abstain from voting, they are not politically neutral and their decisions can affect others. If you think people's sincerely held religious beliefs don't affect how they vote, you're kidding yourself.


The simple fact remains that all the actual "good" done by religions could be equally our better accomplished through secular means without using philanthropy as an excuse to indoctrinate vulnerable people into a death cult.

(March 24, 2016 at 6:45 am)Won2blv Wrote:

(March 23, 2016 at 11:58 pm)Godschild Wrote:

---

I'm glad it gets under your skin to see Christians trying to help those former ones if we can, means we are doing something correct.

GC

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I would never join a religion like baptist. If I did believe in the god of the bible I know he would not approve of people adopting pagan religious customs into their religion. I know that he wouldn't support his people getting involved in political affairs of mankind. I know that Jesus is not god, but his son. I am still proud of JW's in a lot of areas, even if no one on this forum gives them any credit.

And for every one else that dogs religions as being equally as bad

JW's called out religions as a snare over a 100 years ago before it was cool

JW's have been persecuted and killed by Nazis and other political parties for their strict neutrality stance

JW's stay neutral in all political affairs, which means that they aren't trying to push their religious policies into your life through legislation

Of course they aren't perfect and there is the bullshit.

---

Quote: But I am not trying to get out of my indoctrination by just having people tell me that all religion is bullshit so you're an idiot if you believe one word of the bible. Even the atheist bible, the skeptics annotated bible, has a section for "good stuff."

 

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So my op is simply on the fact that the statues feet simply describes a political world that we live in. I find it interesting that a guy 2500 years ago predicted a government that was ruled by the common people.

Before I give up on this thread, does anyone have any point or comment concerning that?

---

So, your OP strongly implied ("As I have been transitioning to atheism") that you were leaning toward atheism but hung up on a "prophecy" in Daniel.  You don't believe that Jesus is god.  Neither do I.  But you clearly place a lot of value on the book, and you love your little prophecy. So my prophecy for you is: you have no leanings toward atheism and will remain a JW.  Good for you.  But don't come here pretending to be conflicted over your indoctrination, in order to try to sell us on a ridiculous ancient fantasy that has no relevance to anyone in today's world.