(March 27, 2016 at 8:34 am)Jello Wrote: I'm curious, GC. Why should your god, exist above all others?

To me it's all the same BS in different wrapping paper.

This is where they ALL pull the false martyrdom complex. They confuse the criticism of bad logic with bigotry. Every religion is fine with the questioning and blasphemy of all others, until you get to theirs. They all point to the others and say "you got it wrong" and we agree, but we simply reject them all.

And all it would take is for them to consider why they reject all others besides their own claims and apply that same reasoning to their own claims. They wont do that, it takes them out of their comfort zone.

(March 27, 2016 at 5:16 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(March 26, 2016 at 9:43 pm)Godschild Wrote: What does 50 million deaths have to do with anything, except to help keep the world from becoming over crowded in just a short time. I pray to Yahweh, but then I guess you didn't realize Yahweh is the God of creation, the God of the Jews and the God of Christians. No wonder you have trouble arguing against Christians.
You need to bring proof that my believing in answered prayer is an appeal to emotion and that my perception is flawed.

GC

SAMPLE RATE error. 50 million people died, and I am sure lots of them saw it coming and prayed too. So what makes you so special, seems kinda selfish to me. You think those others that died wanted to? You think they didn't have loved ones now in agony now missing them?

No I don't need to bring proof.

"Prove Muslim prayer does not work"
"Prove Hindu prayer does not work"
"Prove Jewish prayer does not work"
"Prove Buddhist prayer does not work"
"Prove Mormon prayer does not work"
"Prove Shinto prayer does not work"

You wouldn't buy those arguments above, so why should I give your "prove it doesn't work"  either?

I didn't ask you to prove my prayer doesn't work, I ask you to prove my belief in answered prayer was an appeal to emotion and that my perception is flawed.
I have many relatives including my Dad that I miss very much, however I have the peace of knowing it's not a permanent situation, I will see them again. I am not in agony over their deaths either. My mother probably has only a couple years left, she doesn't fear her death, nor do I. I hate to see it come because I want to keep her here but, as we all know that's not possible everyone dies and when she does we will celebrate her life and look forward to seeing her again and we will.
As for those six arguments above, I'm asked to prove similar type arguments all the time. Yes if I'm required to bring proof then the same applies to everyone else. I hear it all the time bring me proof, bring me proof, bring me proof so I'm asking what is asked of me, seems reasonable, right?

GC

(March 27, 2016 at 5:36 am)FebruaryOfReason Wrote:

(March 26, 2016 at 9:33 pm)Godschild Wrote: You need to bring proof that my believing in answered prayer is an appeal to emotion and that my perception is flawed.

GC

Does the success rate of your prayers show any observable, consistently reproducible difference from the success rate of just making random wishes that you don't address to any deity? Does the success rate differ if you address your prayers to Ganesh rather than God? I.e. have you conducted any control tests?

I don't concern myself with wishes, there just that, something with no hope of happening. Not even sure who Ganesh is an I suppose you don't either since you miss spelled the name but that aside God is the only God. How do I know, because no other God has ever come to me. The God of creation came to me offering me salvation and no matter how you want to twist this matter God does answer prayer, I've received answers in such a specific way that there was no doubt that God answered. God will prove himself to those who truly seek Him and want a real relationship with Him.

GC

(March 26, 2016 at 11:50 pm)Jehanne Wrote:

(March 26, 2016 at 10:28 pm)Godschild Wrote: Prayer prayed as a demand will not be answered, you can't sway God through demands. Prayer is a request in some situations, prayer is having a conversation with God, as you would with a friend. Prayer is thanking God for the things He's blessed you with, prayer is recognizing God is righteous and perfect, worthy of worship. Prayer is recognizing God's will is going to take priority over our asking because He is omniscient. I ask for certain things daily and believe God will answer yes, I thank Him daily and I usually have a short conversation with Him, I've asked God for many things and have received nos and yeses. Prayer is part of having a relationship with God to help in one's growth and to be available for working within God's will for others, His plans are always best.
Now for the amputee, a Christian would give thanks to God for saving his/her life and be ready to see what God's plan is for them. Will they be sad they lost a limb/s, yes, I know I would, but I also know God will still have a plan for my life and help me in His plan, giving me also the peace and comfort I would need to go forward. For those who would ask God to restore an amputated limb/s they actually know very little about God. If God restored a limb then where would faith be in Christianity and more importantly in God's plan, everyone would know that the limb didn't grow back by itself, because one hasn't. I'm not saying people shouldn't ask God to restore a limb, what I'm saying people should understand how to pray within God's will, they will be much happier in their future life.
Don't know if this is what you were looking for, it is however it's what I see as the correct way to pray.

GC

So, it's against "god's plan" to restore amputated limbs?

After all I said and this is what you have, I honestly thought you might have something more and yes it may be part of God's plan not to restore amputated limbs, if you want to know why you'll have to ask Him. God wants us to trust in Him for our better life with Him, whether we have all our limbs or not. I've heard of obscure stories about limbs being restored, I haven't investigated them because for me that's not important to my faith, belief and knowledge of God, God's given me what I need just as He promised He would for everyone who desires a loving relationship with Him.

GC

(March 27, 2016 at 8:34 am)Jello Wrote: I'm curious, GC. Why should your god, exist above all others?

To me it's all the same BS in different wrapping paper.

Because you wouldn't exist if He didn't. There are no other gods, if there were why haven't they contacted me in any way, just curious if you have some knowledge of why please let me know.

GC

(March 27, 2016 at 11:10 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(March 27, 2016 at 8:34 am)Jello Wrote: I'm curious, GC. Why should your god, exist above all others?

To me it's all the same BS in different wrapping paper.

Because you wouldn't exist if He didn't. There are no other gods, if there were why haven't they contacted me in any way, just curious if you have some knowledge of why please let me know.

GC

Actually, Jello's parents are responsible for Jello's existence. Not some god. As for *any* god contacting you, there has been no proof provided from you that any contact has been made and you are simply asking anyone reading that to just take your word for it. Sorry, but it's not that simple for logical, sane thinking people. 

Talking to an imaginary figure is something I stopped doing when I was six years old and learned to make real friends and let my imaginary ones go.

You have no proof of any god. Not yours, not anyone else's, so how do you, in fact, intend to show verifiable proof that your god is the right god? How do you know for fact, via verifiable proof that when you die, you've followed something real? 

I've extended the offer for a god, any god, to come have lunch with me and answer some questions. To date, my offer has not been taken up on. I'm still waiting.

(March 27, 2016 at 10:37 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(March 27, 2016 at 5:16 am)Brian37 Wrote: SAMPLE RATE error. 50 million people died, and I am sure lots of them saw it coming and prayed too. So what makes you so special, seems kinda selfish to me. You think those others that died wanted to? You think they didn't have loved ones now in agony now missing them?

No I don't need to bring proof.

"Prove Muslim prayer does not work"
"Prove Hindu prayer does not work"
"Prove Jewish prayer does not work"
"Prove Buddhist prayer does not work"
"Prove Mormon prayer does not work"
"Prove Shinto prayer does not work"

You wouldn't buy those arguments above, so why should I give your "prove it doesn't work"  either?

I didn't ask you to prove my prayer doesn't work, I ask you to prove my belief in answered prayer was an appeal to emotion and that my perception is flawed.
I have many relatives including my Dad that I miss very much, however I have the peace of knowing it's not a permanent situation, I will see them again. I am not in agony over their deaths either. My mother probably has only a couple years left, she doesn't fear her death, nor do I. I hate to see it come because I want to keep her here but, as we all know that's not possible everyone dies and when she does we will celebrate her life and look forward to seeing her again and we will.
As for those six arguments above, I'm asked to prove similar type arguments all the time. Yes if I'm required to bring proof then the same applies to everyone else. I hear it all the time bring me proof, bring me proof, bring me proof so I'm asking what is asked of me, seems reasonable, right?

GC

Nope sorry, again, you are trying to make word salad to dodge proving your claim. 

Other people have different god claims and pray to those god/s too and they also think their prayers are answered too. They also have "experiences" they think are real, as real as you think yours was. What you and they don't consider is that is is nothing more than your wishful  thinking and gap filling. 

If you accept that praying to Allah or Vishnu or a statue of Buddha has no real effect on reality, then why do you expect me to swallow your version of "it works" either? I could care less which flavor of superstition you personally swallow, I don't treat your claims any differently than you treat the claims of others, I simply reject one more superstition than you do. "Prayer" is simply a result of wishful thinking based on selection bias and sample rate error. 

Nobody was praying to Jesus or Allah or Vishnu or Buddha or Yahweh or Apollo 200,000 years ago. Our planet is 4 billion years old and our universe is 14 billion years old. It takes 1 ray of light 100,000 years at the speed of light to cross our galaxy alone. We've only just now gotten 1 object out of our solar system and that took 40 years. Our universe has 100s of BILLIONS of galaxies in it, yet you, like most humans of ALL religions stupidly think that talking to yourself which is what you are really doing, has some sort of magical effect on your life.

There is no such thing as a cosmic sky hero by any name. Wanting one to be real does not make one real. We are not important to this planet, the planet is important to us. The planet does not depend on us, we depend on the planet. But we are NOT important to the planet or universe in long term cosmic time.

I am sorry that bothers you to think about being finite, it should not bother you. What should bother you is your bad logic based on old books that have no real modern knowledge of scientific reality. Prayer at best is a placebo, but you are NOT talking to invisible sky wizards anymore than the Ancient Egyptians were really praying to Ra or Horus or Isis. 

Nothing bad will happen to you if you figure out what we have. There is no sky bully to threaten you with hell. Nobody will smite you. You will simply grow up. 

So, every time you say "prayer works", fine, take your pet god claim out, replace it with with another god claim and ask yourself if it makes sense to fill in the gap with that one. If not, then take that logic you use to rightfully reject that logic, and be intellectually brave and aim that same logic at your own claims.  If you are unwilling to do that, you are not being objective or neutral. But you most certainly ARE NOT the only person, or only religion that thinks prayer works.

He should be fired.

(March 28, 2016 at 12:02 am)Nymphadora Wrote:

(March 27, 2016 at 11:10 pm)Godschild Wrote: Because you wouldn't exist if He didn't. There are no other gods, if there were why haven't they contacted me in any way, just curious if you have some knowledge of why please let me know.

GC

Actually, Jello's parents are responsible for Jello's existence. Not some god. As for *any* god contacting you, there has been no proof provided from you that any contact has been made and you are simply asking anyone reading that to just take your word for it. Sorry, but it's not that simple for logical, sane thinking people. 

Talking to an imaginary figure is something I stopped doing when I was six years old and learned to make real friends and let my imaginary ones go.

You have no proof of any god. Not yours, not anyone else's, so how do you, in fact, intend to show verifiable proof that your god is the right god? How do you know for fact, via verifiable proof that when you die, you've followed something real? 

I've extended the offer for a god, any god, to come have lunch with me and answer some questions. To date, my offer has not been taken up on. I'm still waiting.

And now you've made me think about my parents having sex. THANKS NYMPHADORA.

But for reals, GC, that's a pretty dumb way of looking at it

(March 28, 2016 at 7:19 am)Bella Morte Wrote: He should be fired.

If this alleged "all powerful" god ran a bicycle factory, the bikes would end up with squid for spokes and the workers would murder each other over all the different assembly manuals. If this "God" has a "plan" sure as hell is fucked up. And "praying" is really done in self denial in reality. If your alleged god knows what he is doing, then asking him to change things seems to negate the idea that you trust him.