(July 10, 2016 at 6:29 pm)paulpablo Wrote:

(July 10, 2016 at 6:22 pm)Yeauxleaux Wrote: No I said "black-on-black crime" doesn't exist because a black person killing another black person is just murder, it's not racially-motivated "black-on-black" muder.

I didn't say it's impossible for a black person to commit something which is a crime. The claims aren't mutually exlusive.

And ok then my post didn't apply to you. But it does apply to a lot of people who throw out these crime statistics as if just to say "oh black people again... get it together". It's ignorant and dismissive of the societal conditions that can lead these people into crime.

To an extent I am saying they should get it together definitely.  Mostly towards young black males in America though, I said that in my previous posts that when you see men who are nearly at their mid 20s I definitely think it would be a good idea to stop going around with coloured rags on their head, forming gangs, getting gold teeth and shooting each other dead.

I'm really quite tired of pretending that you're not dreadfully ignorant and a massive bigot.

Now, I don't blame you.
This is what happens when you learn about black people from cop shows on TV.

(July 10, 2016 at 7:06 pm)paulpablo Wrote:

(July 10, 2016 at 6:57 pm)Thena323 Wrote: Was going to post a bit about the ridiculous premise of black on black crime, but Yeaxleux beat me to the punch. Figured you'd still run with it though, and you did NOT disappoint.

At any rate, crime committed by the general populace as a result of interpersonal relationships, affiliations, happenstance and sheer dumb luck, or whatever has nothing to do with the issue of brutality/murder leveled by those tasked with upholding the law, and operating under the authority of the government. 

These are entirely different matters. How can you not understand how ludicrous it sounds when you keep parroting the black on black mantra? You're presented with the prospect of the government sanctioning, or at least turning a blind eye to violence perpetrated by agents acting on their behalf, and your best and immediate response is:

"Yeah...But, remember that time Tyrone shot Pookie?" 

Give me a fucking break.

That makes sense to you? Really?

My guess is that the more interactions you have with the police the higher the chances of police brutality occurring.

Personally I'm not bringing black on black crime into the conversation for the sake of it just to say yeh but look at what black people do.

I'm saying one of the reasons behind an increased rate of police brutality against black people may be in part due to a higher crime, more instances of resisting arrest, and more violence against police from black people resulting in more interactions with the police that turn violent.

Just as a general trend, not to say that no instances of police racism exist or that no completely unprovoked instances of police brutality have never happened.

Do you understand that black men in the US are also routinely stopped for simply walking?

I have two sons....two very shy, extremely nerdy, non-threatening sons who have been stopped by law enforcement in broad daylight while walking to their friend's house to play video games. And on their way to work, in uniform. It's not at all an uncommon occurrence.

Police are initiating the interactions, half the time.

What do you suggest be done to minimize interactions in those cases? 
Never leave the house?

(July 10, 2016 at 7:47 pm)Thena323 Wrote:

(July 10, 2016 at 7:06 pm)paulpablo Wrote: My guess is that the more interactions you have with the police the higher the chances of police brutality occurring.

Personally I'm not bringing black on black crime into the conversation for the sake of it just to say yeh but look at what black people do.

I'm saying one of the reasons behind an increased rate of police brutality against black people may be in part due to a higher crime, more instances of resisting arrest, and more violence against police from black people resulting in more interactions with the police that turn violent.

Just as a general trend, not to say that no instances of police racism exist or that no completely unprovoked instances of police brutality have never happened.

Do you understand that black men in the US are also routinely stopped for simply walking?

I have two sons....two very shy, extremely nerdy,  non-threatening sons who have been stopped by law enforcement in broad daylight while walking to their friend's house to play video games. And on their way to work, in uniform. It's not at all an uncommon occurrence.

Police are initiating the interactions, half the time.

What do you suggest be done to to minimize interactions in those cases? 
Never leave the house?

I think cops need better training, one that does not involve racial profiling.

Racial profiling is one the major causes of non-white deaths by cops.

(July 10, 2016 at 7:47 pm)Thena323 Wrote:

(July 10, 2016 at 7:06 pm)paulpablo Wrote: My guess is that the more interactions you have with the police the higher the chances of police brutality occurring.

Personally I'm not bringing black on black crime into the conversation for the sake of it just to say yeh but look at what black people do.

I'm saying one of the reasons behind an increased rate of police brutality against black people may be in part due to a higher crime, more instances of resisting arrest, and more violence against police from black people resulting in more interactions with the police that turn violent.

Just as a general trend, not to say that no instances of police racism exist or that no completely unprovoked instances of police brutality have never happened.

Do you understand that black men in the US are also routinely stopped for simply walking?

I have two sons....two very shy, extremely nerdy,  non-threatening sons who have been stopped by law enforcement in broad daylight while walking to their friend's house to play video games. And on their way to work, in uniform. It's not at all an uncommon occurrence.

Police are initiating the interactions, half the time.

What do you suggest be done to to minimize interactions in those cases? 
Never leave the house?

Clearly, by being black, you an your sons are responsible for the crimes of black criminals and you are also responsible for the abuse of white police against black civilians because by being black you're um...promoting crime and stuff.

(July 10, 2016 at 6:18 pm)A Theist Wrote: [...]
 To suggest that one people of color should be shot by the police to make things equal to another people of color was inappropriate, sarcastic in content or not. [...]

You obviously have no way of knowing that, but for anyone who - unlike you - is not a racist dimwit, it would be virtually impossible to perceive such a suggestion as a serious one. You, on the other hand, seem to consider racially motivated police brutality against people of certain ethnicity to be somewhat justified, therefore you can imagine someone else thinking the same about your own race - which is why you become defensive.

It's also quite telling, that you concluded, that I don't like white people, but not that I don't like women, even though I made the same sarcastic suggestion regarding them in the same post. Was that appropriate, then? Gee, thanks, Buffalo Bill...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3grk-slP0LU

(July 10, 2016 at 7:47 pm)Thena323 Wrote:

(July 10, 2016 at 7:06 pm)paulpablo Wrote: My guess is that the more interactions you have with the police the higher the chances of police brutality occurring.

Personally I'm not bringing black on black crime into the conversation for the sake of it just to say yeh but look at what black people do.

I'm saying one of the reasons behind an increased rate of police brutality against black people may be in part due to a higher crime, more instances of resisting arrest, and more violence against police from black people resulting in more interactions with the police that turn violent.

Just as a general trend, not to say that no instances of police racism exist or that no completely unprovoked instances of police brutality have never happened.

Do you understand that black men in the US are also routinely stopped for simply walking?

I have two sons....two very shy, extremely nerdy, non-threatening sons who have been stopped by law enforcement in broad daylight while walking to their friend's house to play video games. And on their way to work, in uniform. It's not at all an uncommon occurrence.

Police are initiating the interactions, half the time.

What do you suggest be done to minimize interactions in those cases? 
Never leave the house?

I mean violent interactions, not just being stopped.

I've been stopped and questioned around 5 times just off the top of my head, being questioned over where I'm walking, I've had a police car and a police van swoop in on me because I didn't drive through a traffic light when it turned green quickly enough, questioned over a car robbery while I still had my work uniform on and I was blatantly on my break in work. I've been questioned over a stabbing so on and so forth. I've got a completely clean criminal record by the way.

We're just talking about anecdotal incidents here so I know this proves nothing, but all my friends who got caught by police with drugs or searched extensively were friends who acted like idiots while around the police.
I've been tempted to act like an idiot with the police in times when they've been a bit overly aggressive in questioning me over stuff I've not done but I just keep my cool, and I'm assuming you sons did the same thing? I've not always been stopped with an "excuse me sir" sometimes it's just been " EY! COME ERE NOW!" Which was the case when I was stopped because some sort of stabbing happened in my area.

When the police stopped me for the car robbery near my work and I was on my break, it was when I used to smoke weed and I had a bag of weed and a joint that was in the process of being rolled on the step behind me while I was being questioned by them. It was either out of luck or because I was polite or whatever they didn't ask me to stand up or ask what was behind me.

Also I'm not actually saying there is anything anyone can do about any kind of prejudice any police officer has.
Apart from avoid bad areas, and if you live in a bad area just try and avoid being in possession of drugs or whatever else and try and be polite.

What I would say is that areas with bad crime rates most likely have more police traffic going through and that will account for more interaction. If you go through those areas or live in those areas then you better watch out for the criminals and the police.

(July 10, 2016 at 8:57 pm)paulpablo Wrote:

(July 10, 2016 at 7:47 pm)Thena323 Wrote: Do you understand that black men in the US are also routinely stopped for simply walking?

I have two sons....two very shy, extremely nerdy, non-threatening sons who have been stopped by law enforcement in broad daylight while walking to their friend's house to play video games. And on their way to work, in uniform. It's not at all an uncommon occurrence.

Police are initiating the interactions, half the time.

What do you suggest be done to minimize interactions in those cases? 
Never leave the house?

I mean violent interactions, not just being stopped.

I've been stopped and questioned around 5 times just off the top of my head, being questioned over where I'm walking, I've had a police car and a police van swoop in on me because I didn't drive through a traffic light when it turned green quickly enough, questioned over a car robbery while I still had my work uniform on and I was blatantly on my break in work. I've been questioned over a stabbing so on and so forth. I've got a completely clean criminal record by the way.

We're just talking about anecdotal incidents here so I know this proves nothing, but all my friends who got caught by police with drugs or searched extensively were friends who acted like idiots while around the police.
I've been tempted to act like an idiot with the police in times when they've been a bit overly aggressive in questioning me over stuff I've not done but I just keep my cool, and I'm assuming you sons did the same thing?  I've not always been stopped with an "excuse me sir" sometimes it's just been " EY! COME ERE NOW!" Which was the case when I was stopped because some sort of stabbing happened in my area.

When the police stopped me for the car robbery near my work and I was on my break, it was when I used to smoke weed and I had a bag of weed and a joint that was in the process of being rolled on the step behind me while I was being questioned by them. It was either out of luck or because I was polite or whatever they didn't ask me to stand up or ask what was behind me.  

Also I'm not actually saying there is anything anyone can do about any kind of prejudice any police officer has.
Apart from avoid bad areas, and if you live in a bad area just try and avoid being in possession of drugs or whatever else and try and be polite.  

What I would say is that areas with bad crime rates most likely have more police traffic going through and that will account for more interaction. If you go through those areas or live in those areas then you better watch out for the criminals and the police.

If I'm not mistaken, you're in the UK. We're talking very specifically about racial profiling here in the US. You would cringe at how silly you sound if you spent any significant time at all here.

The thing is, when you bring the so-called "black on black crime" as a response to the BLM, you are minimizing the problem that they are trying to address.  It's the same thing as saying "All Lives Matter."  No shit, black on black crime happens, and no shit, all lives do matter.  But by saying those as responses to BLM, you belittle the goals of BLM and the fact that unarmed black men are being killed at an alarming rate by police officers across this country.  You are, in fact, devaluing the point they are trying to make, which is that there has been a decades long struggle of abuse of power by the cops when it comes to black men and women and now is the time to do something about it.

Imagine you go to the ER for severe breathing problems, and when you get there, the doc says, "Well, what about your diabetes?  I see you've got some severe problems with that, so come back when you've dealt with that." Meanwhile you're left choking to death. That's what you do when you respond to the BLM with "what about the black on black crime?"

Skip to 3:45 to see Larry take down the "all lives matter" cries.

(July 10, 2016 at 9:23 pm)The_Empress Wrote:

(July 10, 2016 at 8:57 pm)paulpablo Wrote: I mean violent interactions, not just being stopped.

I've been stopped and questioned around 5 times just off the top of my head, being questioned over where I'm walking, I've had a police car and a police van swoop in on me because I didn't drive through a traffic light when it turned green quickly enough, questioned over a car robbery while I still had my work uniform on and I was blatantly on my break in work. I've been questioned over a stabbing so on and so forth. I've got a completely clean criminal record by the way.

We're just talking about anecdotal incidents here so I know this proves nothing, but all my friends who got caught by police with drugs or searched extensively were friends who acted like idiots while around the police.
I've been tempted to act like an idiot with the police in times when they've been a bit overly aggressive in questioning me over stuff I've not done but I just keep my cool, and I'm assuming you sons did the same thing?  I've not always been stopped with an "excuse me sir" sometimes it's just been " EY! COME ERE NOW!" Which was the case when I was stopped because some sort of stabbing happened in my area.

When the police stopped me for the car robbery near my work and I was on my break, it was when I used to smoke weed and I had a bag of weed and a joint that was in the process of being rolled on the step behind me while I was being questioned by them. It was either out of luck or because I was polite or whatever they didn't ask me to stand up or ask what was behind me.  

Also I'm not actually saying there is anything anyone can do about any kind of prejudice any police officer has.
Apart from avoid bad areas, and if you live in a bad area just try and avoid being in possession of drugs or whatever else and try and be polite.  

What I would say is that areas with bad crime rates most likely have more police traffic going through and that will account for more interaction. If you go through those areas or live in those areas then you better watch out for the criminals and the police.

If I'm not mistaken, you're in the UK. We're talking very specifically about racial profiling here in the US. You would cringe at how silly you sound if you spent any significant time at all here.

I was talking about police brutality in the US and how interactions with black people and the police.

Thena was then talking about her sons being stopped twice as anecdotal evidence of something, I don't know what. So in saying so her sons were stopped by the police and they're black and they were innocent. I've been stopped by the police and I'm white and I was innocent, more than twice.
I imagine men get stopped more than women also, and that because of increased interaction with the police and the increased likelyhood that a man will resist arrest or get violent with the police that police brutality is more common on men in general.
I imagine if I was a woman in the area of that stabbing or the car robbery, or walking home at night the police would have been more likely to stop and ask if I'm ok getting home rather than shout me over as a suspect.

Not to say that men, or black men or anyone else are never victims of police prejudice, just that I think most times it isn't police prejudice. I don't think police hate men, I think they just know men commit way more crime so they're bound to stop them more in general

The anecdotal evidence swapping between me and Thena really means nothing either way, it's not evidence we're just both swapping stories of being stopped by police.

(July 10, 2016 at 10:13 pm)paulpablo Wrote:

(July 10, 2016 at 9:23 pm)The_Empress Wrote: If I'm not mistaken, you're in the UK. We're talking very specifically about racial profiling here in the US. You would cringe at how silly you sound if you spent any significant time at all here.

I was talking about police brutality in the US and how interactions with black people and the police.

Thena was then talking about her sons being stopped twice as anecdotal evidence of something, I don't know what. So in saying so her sons were stopped by the police and they're black and they were innocent. I've been stopped by the police and I'm white and I was innocent, more than twice.

Not to speak for Thena, but I'm pretty sure her anecdote was to illustrate how black people, no matter their other traits, are more likely to get stopped, and more often, in the US. Your anecdote has nothing to do with the discussion in this thread. hers does.

Quote:I imagine men get stopped more than women also, and that because of increased interaction with the police and the increased likelyhood that a man will resist arrest or get violent with the police that police brutality is more common on men in general.
I imagine if I was a woman in the area of that stabbing or the car robbery, or walking home at night the police would have been more likely to stop and ask if I'm ok getting home rather than shout me over as a suspect.

What does this have to do with racial profiling or BLM in... the US??

Quote:Not to say that men, or black men or anyone else are never victims of police prejudice, just that I think most times it isn't police prejudice.  I don't think police hate men, I think they just know men commit way more crime so they're bound to stop them more in general

Holy crap, dude. How are you not getting this??

Quote:The anecdotal evidence swapping between me and Thena really means nothing either way, it's not evidence we're just both swapping stories of being stopped by police.

Again, not to speak for Thena: I'm pretty sure she wasn't "just" swapping stories; she was trying to get a point across that's relevant to... have you gotten it yet?... BLM and racial profiling in the US.