So we've established that RobE knows F-all about America, F-all about Asia, F-all about Africa, F-all about colonization, F-all about Manchester and considers himself deprived because he doesn't have the latest I-phone...

(September 24, 2016 at 6:45 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(September 24, 2016 at 6:18 pm)Drich Wrote: The second, dudes went to jail right? how does that constituting out alpha-ing a cop? Cop did his job/what he sets out to do. subdue and place people in custody. if not for the news those two men would have rotted in prison... Are you advocating that people resist police authority?

It's not a cops job to harass law abiding citizens, cops need to have a little something called probable cause.

https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=jlb7goXKxFQ

You are changing the narrative.

It is not your job to discern whether or not a cop has probable cause. That is a matter for the court. Your's like every other citizens (responsibility) is to submit to law enforcement when so directed.

Many, people foolish think that an arrest or being detain is the same as being sentenced to a prison term. So they over react, and try and excuse none compliant behavior with how the law reads.. Due process at this point does include an opportunity for you or me to defend one self. that is a matter of the court.

So again, does a cop have probable cause? it does not matter at this point. It matters in court.

Quote:Better question, why is it you seem to be offended by that statement? does it go against your 'moral fiber?' does it seem wrong to let someone have authority over you? Even though as a believe that is the cornerstone of our beliefs?

Quote:Not to turn this discussion into a religious one, but there is no requirement for any man to be unlawfully under subjection to any authority figure.

But again who are we to decide what is lawful and what is not?

Did Christ rebel when He was 'unlawfully' detained, or did he put up a fight? What did He tell peter after he tried to fight the unlawful detention of Christ?

Did Paul fight capture, did he call for riots even after being whipped?

If you are honest to yourself about our religion you will note the whole religion center's itself around those of us who have been wrongful detained and prosecuted and yet remained faithful even unto death. So then how is the cross you've been asked to be somehow greater and excuses you from submission than the literal crosses Christ and just about everyone who followed Him were nailed to?

Not to mention Paul's direct command in Rom 13 for us to submit ourselves to the governing authorities. Which was a lot tougher command to follow in his day under an insane Ceaser who crucified christians and set them ablaze to light his garden parties.
Of which I'm sure did not receive anything close to a fair trial.

(September 24, 2016 at 7:49 pm)Thena323 Wrote: I don't think police brutality is only a matter of race. Blacks are certainly more likely to experience a negative outcome as a result of an interaction with an officer presenting with an authoritarian personality, but others can and do find themselves at the receiving end of police misconduct. Anyone with a lick of sense should be seriously disturbed by some these stories. It could happen to them.

I think you are somewhat right here as well. It isn't a matter of race and being treated badly. It is almost always certainly a matter of attitude.

Quote:Well, that's why you should stick to selling refrigerated trucks, instead of becoming a police officer. You have no business being one.

you are right.
I looked at being a cop and did my research. My problem is all the petty nonsense your asked to deal with along with the prospect of getting shot or shot at because someone did something wrong that i may not even know about so they over react when i pull them over for tail light.

Quote:I never said all officers display those those traits. Some of them do, though; They're the ones that are part of the problem.

you are right some indeed do, but they tend to wash out before too long. Or do you think given the social climate cops are recruiting guys like this and protecting them when they do something stupid?

Quote:Additionally, all police officers are not required to undergo psychological evaluations. And currently, there's no nationwide standardization in place for administration or content of such evaluations. It literally varies from department to department.

Out side of the small town (where nothing happens) police officers are tested. And some of the reserve officers don't get tested and some of the administrative officers also forego testing. But there isn't a major city/population area that cops aren't tested in.

Quote:http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/29191...s-the-test

Because states regulate how municipal departments operate, typically by creating state commissions or academies to determine hiring and training standards, there is currently no national standard for how police recruit candidates, how they are psychologically evaluated, or even whether or not such evaluations should be mandatory.

Some states use vague language in their statutes, requiring only that a candidate must "be free of" any mental or emotional condition that may affect the candidates' ability to perform their job functions. In some cases, this determination is made through the background investigation process alone. In other cases, the commission and/or state statute says that a clinical physician will make such a determination as part of a required physical examination.

Quote:I would propose that's precisely the sort of attitude that lies at the heart of the problem, much of the time.

Indeed. People trying to out bully or out shout, or even out argue (in a legal sense) a cop are the problem. People need to see and understand the seperation of powers the courts and the police department has.

Quote:Cops who think like you, who are too willing to make sweeping generalizations about an entire race, and generally unwilling to give people the privilege of simple consideration as a individual human being.

But again, here's the thing.. If an officer's commands are not followed then the sweeping generalization is proven correct.

Where as compliance diffuses the sweeping generalization each and every time. Just because one makes a generalization does not mean it is wrong. Especially if it is being proved correct with a combative person who will not allow the officer to diffuse the situation on his trained terms.

Again, it's real simple the police have a series of protocols in which the must act. they for the must part act like robots. If you comply they must De-escilate if they don't then at your civil trial you have a winning lottery ticket. How ever if you do not comply, they have your ticket and can punch it at anytime.

Quote: The wildly prejudicial belief that "All Negroes need to be shown a firm hand" likely drives yours motives and actions whenever you interact with blacks. I get that you're "okay" with that.

F-U and the black chip on your shoulder. How about ANYONE needs to be shown a firm hand if they do not comply and NO one gets a pass moron. You are the one looking for special dispensation in accordance to race. I've been' shown a firm hand' by the police and never once have i complained. Why? because i know it is better for the community before suspected bad guys are subdued before they have a chance to hurt anyone in the community including police officers.. I laid on the asphalt handcuffed with a knee on my back and a bloody lip without the privledge of pants with a gun pressed against the nape of my neck because the Seminole Country Sheriff's department thought the captured the DC sniper IN ORLANDO... All because I fit the profile (white unmarked box truck) and no other reason aside from a guy said he saw me with a gun that I did not have. (my wife was allowed to keep her pants but she too got the gun and handcuff treatment) Till they figured out we were just comming back for a refrig truck break down call. All i got was a quick sorry and a "have you heard of the DC sniper driving a white box truck?"

I've been tackled by a detective and body slammed because i started to run from some bald white guy in plain cloths, again cause i loosly fit some description of some dangerous gang member. I just pulled in to a movie theater to pick up my cousin and he was running to catch me then next thing I know i was being blocked in by cop cars with guns drawn everyone screaming hands then one guy started to pull me out of the window cause he could not get the door open, the car started to roll forward because he was pulling me off the brake, one cop was screaming for the others to get out of the way so he could shoot me for trying to escape... Apparently someone fitting my "Mexican heritage" description was supposed to do a drive by shooting at said theater.

Not to mention the level of harassment I underwent with at least 50 'tail light/BS pull overs for pulling out of a black neighborhood during my innercity ministry years, and all the searches on the side of the road that left me with the guts of my car strewn about.

Not once did I think Hmm. they have it out for me, or I need to get a lawyer, or that if I were only white/white people don't go through this... No I knew that people who at the wrong place at the wrong time that look like are doing the wrong things will be checked...

Again never once complained, sued, or go off on some racial B/S tirade. Again the equation is simple argue with a cop, get manhandled, fight a cop=forfeit your life. Comply with a cop, diffuse a situation. both sides of this works white, black, yellow or any combination thereof. And again that is the way it should be. We all need to yield to the criminal justice process and there should be no special dispensation for you just because your black, one way or the other.

Quote:But, having power over the life and death of others, isn't in your hands 12 to 16 hours a day, is it?

Actually I am a conceal carry citizen and the same rules from which a cop can legal kill someone cover me as well. It's just my job does not put me in harms way most days. Never the less the responsibility is there every waking moment.

(September 24, 2016 at 8:46 pm)Tres Leches Wrote:

(September 24, 2016 at 7:49 pm)Thena323 Wrote: I don't think police brutality is only a matter of race. Blacks are certainly more likely to experience a negative outcome as a result of an interaction with an officer presenting with an authoritarian personality, but others can and do find themselves at the receiving end of police misconduct. Anyone with a lick of sense should be seriously disturbed by some these stories. It could happen to them.

I agree 100%. I respect law and order but The Man (meaning government and authority) must be kept in check! It's a very slippery slope. I've seen first hand what happens (in other countries) when police and governmental authorities are given free reign to do or not do as they please. It's imperative that we prevent that from happening here in the US.

Seriously???

Lord help me...

What do you think the court system is all about?

Police are not judges. they simply detain people for judgement by the court system.

Now the courts decide who is detained properly or not and if the suspect is guilty or not. If the police are detaining people illegally then they themselves become subject to judgement by the court system...

OBEY!

(September 26, 2016 at 10:34 am)Drich Wrote:

(September 24, 2016 at 6:45 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: It's not a cops job to harass law abiding citizens, cops need to have a little something called probable cause.

https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=jlb7goXKxFQ

You are changing the narrative.

It is not your job to discern whether or not a cop has probable cause. That is a matter for the court. Your's like every other citizens (responsibility) is to submit to law enforcement when so directed.

Many, people foolish think that an arrest or being detain is the same as being sentenced to a prison term. So they over react, and try and excuse none compliant behavior with how the law reads.. Due process at this point does include an opportunity for you or me to defend one self. that is a matter of the court.

So again, does a cop have probable cause? it does not matter at this point. It matters in court.

Quote:Better question, why is it you seem to be offended by that statement? does it go against your 'moral fiber?' does it seem wrong to let someone have authority over you? Even though as a believe that is the cornerstone of our beliefs?

Quote:Not to turn this discussion into a religious one, but there is no requirement for any man to be unlawfully under subjection to any authority figure.

But again who are we to decide what is lawful and what is not?

Did Christ rebel when He was 'unlawfully' detained, or did he put up a fight? What did He tell peter after he tried to fight the unlawful detention of Christ?

Did Paul fight capture, did he call for riots even after being whipped?

If you are honest to yourself about our religion you will note the whole religion center's itself around those of us who have been wrongful detained and prosecuted and yet remained faithful even unto death. So then how is the cross you've been asked to be somehow greater and excuses you from submission than the literal crosses Christ and just about everyone who followed Him were nailed to?

Not to mention Paul's direct command in Rom 13 for us to submit ourselves to the governing authorities. Which was a lot tougher command to follow in his day under an insane Ceaser who crucified christians and set them ablaze to light his garden parties.
Of which I'm sure did not receive anything close to a fair trial.

I am not religious but I do agree with the structure of your post.  You don't have to have a religion to know the difference between right and wrong. This should come from the home from ideally a mum and dad or mum/mum or dad/dad whichever. A lot of people nowadays are too afraid to assume the reponsibility and claim it is the fault of others. I mean, when I committed the act of burglary in broad daylight with some so-called friends, I thought it was cool. However, when one of the friends got caught, he went squawking like a bird. The police went around to my house on a Friday apparently but no-one was home so, I had a lucky escape. That is, until I went to my friends house and his mum asked me if I helped her son commit burglary and I denied it three times until I finally gave in. I walked the 5 minutes to my house and waited outside thinking of a way to break the news to my parents. I knew full well that I would get a beating of my life. As it happens, I told my parents the truth, and about 30 minutes later after a coffee, my mum and I went down to the police station and answered all the necessary questions. I got 6 months probation in the end and learnt a great lesson in taking responsibility for your actions.

It turned out a few years later, this so-called friend got caught driving without a licence or insurance and gave my name twice and my date of birth. I went to caught, and the prosecution had a photo of him and they knew it wasn't me from the start. I could have battered him for that, but I knew that if I did, I would have ended up in jail.

(September 26, 2016 at 12:25 pm)RobertE Wrote: I am not religious but I do agree with the structure of your post.  You don't have to have a religion to know the difference between right and wrong. This should come from the home from ideally a mum and dad or mum/mum or dad/dad whichever.

OK, that's implying everyone getting shot within the last 24 months actually was doing something wrong. So riddle me this. Only to take the most glaring incidence of a 12 year old (black) boy was shot within two seconds because he was playing with a toy gun in the streets. Video is readily available via google, I won't look it up for your convenience.

I don't know about you, but if playing with a toy gun at that age warrants death, I would be six feet under for the last 40 years by now.

(September 26, 2016 at 1:09 pm)abaris Wrote:

(September 26, 2016 at 12:25 pm)RobertE Wrote: I am not religious but I do agree with the structure of your post.  You don't have to have a religion to know the difference between right and wrong. This should come from the home from ideally a mum and dad or mum/mum or dad/dad whichever.

OK, that's implying everyone getting shot within the last 24 months actually was doing something wrong. So riddle me this. Only to take the most glaring incidence of a 12 year old (black) boy was shot within two seconds because he was playing with a toy gun in the streets. Video is readily available via google, I won't look it up for your convenience.

I don't know about you, but if playing with a toy gun at that age warrants death, I would be six feet under for the last 40 years by now.

You need to separate the American mentality of being brought up with guns and the European mentality. We are worlds apart and cannot imagine what it is like in the USA. I have already admitted that I know very little about the USA. Either way, attitudes need to change with regards to the gun laws.

(September 26, 2016 at 1:13 pm)RobertE Wrote: You need to separate the American mentality of being brought up with guns and the European mentality.

No, I don't need to seperate the two, since, having had relatives there, I used to travel there since the early 70ies. The mentality isn't that different. Police training however has changed radically, as so many other things, during the last 15 years.

They weren't as trigger happy before. And, on a side note, I guess the number of white, black, Latino or Asian minors playing with guns will be about equal, since they are all boys. Seems to me the black kid is the only one having been handed the letal ass end. Otherwise we would have heard.

(September 26, 2016 at 1:18 pm)abaris Wrote:

(September 26, 2016 at 1:13 pm)RobertE Wrote: You need to separate the American mentality of being brought up with guns and the European mentality.

No, I don't need to seperate the two, since, having had relatives there, I used to travel there since the early 70ies. The mentality isn't that different. Police training however has changed radically, as so many other things, during the last 15 years.

They weren't as trigger happy before. And, on a side note, I guess the number of white, black, Latino or Asian minors playing with guns will be about equal, since they are all boys. Seems to me the black kid is the only one having been handed the letal ass end. Otherwise we would have heard.

Don't you hope that one day both the police and the citizens will be able to walk around without the need for weapons? It will never happen, but it would be nice, knowing that cops won't be able to take out lives, and the people can finally talk through their problems, instead of bringing the issue to a head by using a gun. As for the view of the police, they have changed and are unrecognisable from the days of this particular series: