(October 24, 2016 at 7:05 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

Quote:That's for when the zombie walks into the house....

I just hate when that happens.

Boru

Me too...on a related notes, also works for in-laws!

(October 24, 2016 at 12:15 pm)Kernel Sohcahtoa Wrote: While my gut would like to answer in the affirmative, reason compels me to be skeptical about my intuition.  I'm curious about other peoples' thoughts on this? Do you think religion is peaceful? Does it ultimately hold us back from creating a peaceful world? Or, even without religion, would we still find ways to be hostile to one another? Can peace be obtained? What is your formula for peace?

Religion is not an inherently bad thing. Whether or not the world could be peaceful depends on what the religion consists of. What it teaches, what the faithful believe in regards to dignity of human life, etc.

It's basically no different from saying "can we have a peaceful world with opinions/ideas still in existence?" Well, that would depend on what the "opinions/ideas" were lol.

It also depends on how the adherents address their faith. Is it supreme? Is it personal?

Much depends on the attitude of the believer. I've known many who consider their faith more important than people, and many others who strive for harmony no matter their faith or lack thereof.

If we're talking about non-dogmatic religion, maybe so. Dogmatic religion inherently invites conflict though because in their minds, there is only one way - their way. I don't see how Christianity or Islam could ever be compatible with peace unless they were heavily watered down.

abaris Wrote:Why don't you ask is it possible for humanity to create a peaceful world, period?

This is an excellent question.  On the surface it looks like I’ve been narrow-minded and short-sighted in my inquiry; and, this may indeed be the case here (I’ve got a lot to learn from all of you and others).  I created this thread as a result of the various interactions that I have observed between non-secular and secular members on AF.  Based on some of these exchanges, especially where the differences between both camps seemed quite intractable, I wondered whether peace between the two sides was a realistic goal.  Hence, this was why I asked a rather limiting question, rather than asking a broader, more general one. 
 

Jörmungandr Wrote:If by a peaceful world a world without war, then yes it is possible to have peace and religion so long as that competition is peaceable

Yes, this is pretty much what I mean.  Is humanity capable of constructing a workable system where people can manage their differences non-violently and constructively?  Naturally,  the existence of peaceable competition is important; however, IMO, mutual cooperation is also important too.

(October 24, 2016 at 7:41 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: It also depends on how the adherents address their faith.  Is it supreme? Is it personal?

Much depends on the attitude of the believer. I've known many who consider their faith more important than people, and many others who strive for harmony no matter their faith or lack thereof.

Yep^

Common problems with religion are that they are dogmatic which makes them inflexible; they are divisive, with an in-group and out-group mentality; and they muddy the waters of morality by turning it into a points system for eventual rewards.

A religion can be anything, of course. I think that for it to be part of a truly peaceful society, it needs to be a minor part of people's lives, in general. In the case of the Abrahamic faiths, this usually means watering them down a lot, because when taken at all seriously there is little chance for peace.

I think the world would be better off without them. But there would still be many other obstacles. I've come to feel that religion is ultimately a political tool, and that politics is what really decides things.

(October 24, 2016 at 7:34 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(October 24, 2016 at 12:15 pm)Kernel Sohcahtoa Wrote: While my gut would like to answer in the affirmative, reason compels me to be skeptical about my intuition.  I'm curious about other peoples' thoughts on this? Do you think religion is peaceful? Does it ultimately hold us back from creating a peaceful world? Or, even without religion, would we still find ways to be hostile to one another? Can peace be obtained? What is your formula for peace?

Religion is not an inherently bad thing. Whether or not the world could be peaceful depends on what the religion consists of. What it teaches, what the faithful believe in regards to dignity of human life, etc.

It's basically no different from saying "can we have a peaceful world with opinions/ideas still in existence?" Well, that would depend on what the "opinions/ideas" were lol.

I don't think religion is what you think it is.

(October 24, 2016 at 12:15 pm)Kernel Sohcahtoa Wrote:  Do you think religion is peaceful?

No.

Quote:Does it ultimately hold us back from creating a peaceful world?

I don't think so, no, religions (no matter which you choose to discuss) play to the best and the worst of us - that;s never going to work, considering how bad the worst of us can be and how terrible our best is sometimes expressed -as-.

Quote:Or, even without religion, would we still find ways to be hostile to one another? Can peace be obtained? What is your formula for peace?

We already find plenty of ways and reasons.  It's convenient when a bunch of them fall under one tent and get ascribed the moniker "religion", but we'd still be at each other tooth and nail for any of the other (most of the time) better reasons.

(October 24, 2016 at 7:34 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Religion is not an inherently bad thing. Whether or not the world could be peaceful depends on what the religion consists of. What it teaches, what the faithful believe in regards to dignity of human life, etc.

By the more radical adherents every religion can be turned into a violent ideology. All the holy books are highly ambiguous and good people can draw from them as well as bad people. Both can feel entirely justified by picking the verses or suras to suits their nature.

But as I said, religion is just one idea or ideology to rally behind to make the world less peaceful. If it vanished, there's still no shortage of other ideas or ideologies. Unless humanity itself evolves to a point where we don't feel the need to safeguard our territory anymore, there won't be peace on earth.

At it's extreme, religion does nothing else than nationalism, racism or one of the many partisan ideologies. To form an exclusive group, a group thinking to be superior to anyone outside this particular circle and to bring "the others" to heel or to remove them entirely.