(October 31, 2016 at 12:50 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

Mariosep Wrote:You atheist colleagues keep on and on saying that you don't see my proof to be any proof, but I ask you to show me an example of how if ever you prove something to exist in objective reality, and I am not getting any at all; please at least see that I have presented a proof, you also present an example of a proof of something existing, step by step, before you even repeat again and again that I don't have proof for God existing - here goes: in concept first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.

You don't use logical proof to prove something exists, you demonstrate its existence by experiment or observation. I don't have to formally establish a premise, reasoning, and conclusion to prove cats are real; all I have to do is show you one. I can't think of ANY examples where a thing with objective existence outside of the human imagination was proven to be real in objective reality by logic. If you can find such a thing, maybe you can use that method to prove God exists.

1. Mister Agenda posted an example of how to prove the existence of something in objective reality.
2. I am unable provide this type of evidence, since it does not exist, and am left with naught but a nebulous concept and bad reasoning.
3. Therefore, Mister Agenda's post will be ignored, and I will just repost my OP.

(October 31, 2016 at 1:05 pm)Primordial Bisque Wrote:

(October 31, 2016 at 12:50 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: You don't use logical proof to prove something exists, you demonstrate its existence by experiment or observation. I don't have to formally establish a premise, reasoning, and conclusion to prove cats are real; all I have to do is show you one. I can't think of ANY examples where a thing with objective existence outside of the human imagination was proven to be real in objective reality by logic. If you can find such a thing, maybe you can use that method to prove God exists.

1. Mister Agenda posted an example of how to prove the existence of something in objective reality.
2. I am unable provide this type of evidence, since it does not exist, and am left with naught but a nebulous concept and bad reasoning.
3. Therefore, Mister Agenda's post will be ignored, and I will just repost my OP.

Fooled me, thought it was troll for sure.

(October 31, 2016 at 12:50 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

Mariosep Wrote:You atheist colleagues keep on and on saying that you don't see my proof to be any proof, but I ask you to show me an example of how if ever you prove something to exist in objective reality, and I am not getting any at all; please at least see that I have presented a proof, you also present an example of a proof of something existing, step by step, before you even repeat again and again that I don't have proof for God existing - here goes: in concept first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.

You don't use logical proof to prove something exists, you demonstrate its existence by experiment or observation. I don't have to formally establish a premise, reasoning, and conclusion to prove cats are real; all I have to do is show you one. I can't think of ANY examples where a thing with objective existence outside of the human imagination was proven to be real in objective reality by logic. If you can find such a thing, maybe you can use that method to prove God exists.

Wait, wait. You didn't follow his instructions. Step by step:

1 Premise: Cats exist
2 Observation: Here's a cat....

3 Conclusion: Cats exist

(October 31, 2016 at 1:53 pm)LostLocke Wrote:

(October 31, 2016 at 12:50 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: You don't use logical proof to prove something exists, you demonstrate its existence by experiment or observation. I don't have to formally establish a premise, reasoning, and conclusion to prove cats are real; all I have to do is show you one. I can't think of ANY examples where a thing with objective existence outside of the human imagination was proven to be real in objective reality by logic. If you can find such a thing, maybe you can use that method to prove God exists.

Wait, wait. You didn't follow his instructions. Step by step:

1 Premise: Cats exist
2 Observation: Here's a cat....

3 Conclusion: Cats exist

And a female cat. Hey sexy.

Quote: Stimbo Offline
Administrator and Prophet-in-residence
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Dear Stimbo, I like to assure you that I am an honest poster here, even though I am a theist. and all the posters who interact with me are atheists, and this is a forum founded and operated by atheists, whom I owe a debt of gratitude for being still around.

All I want to do in this thread is to find out how atheists think at all, and I am honestly having a hard time because I do not seem to effect linkage with atheists here, perhaps it is my peculiar English.

And I don't blame either atheists here because they also complain that they are not getting to me at all.

So, dear atheist colleagues here, please let us all be patient and not accuse each other of doing something that is basically dishonest, like claiming to have said this or that when it has been said, or whatever else.

I will just tell you, dear atheist colleagues here, I am only one poster here, I am not a battalion; so I have to decide what posters to reply to, and normally I choose to react to posters who to me seem to be receptive to my thoughts, and also they don't engage in personal insults on me, and they keep to the thread, which is my request to atheists to tell me what they think of my proof for the existence of God.

So, dear atheist colleague Stimbo, please also be patient with me, and I assure you that I am not into any dishonest way of interacting with posters here.

And I will have to be cautious as not to get derailed with having to answer to everything that posters here bring up, so that my time and labor are totally directed to this everything whatsoever but in effect away from the thread.

When I was here in my last session, I was into again inviting Mathilda to resume our interaction on an one on one protocol, in particular I requested that we both go into exchange on the subject of cause, for she said that a first cause brings up for her the question of the cause of the first cause, and I am going to address the same concern to her, now.


So, dear atheist colleagues here, let you and me just be patient with each other, and keep to the topic of the thread, and may I just ask that you not insult me.

And I assure you Stimbo and fellow colleagues here that I am trying my best to master the formatting codes here, and learning to perfect my skill with experimenting as I write and post my messages.

Now, I am going to submit this message without any further ado, let us see how it comes out.

(October 24, 2016 at 5:27 am)Mariosep Wrote: This is my proof for God existing.

1. Formulate the information of the concept of God, thus:
"God in concept is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning."

2. Look for instances of causation in reality outside of concepts in our mind.

3. We find countless examples of causation in reality outside of concepts in our mind.

4. From the countless instances of causation in reality, we infer to the existence of a first and ultimate cause.

5. We find that the first and ultimate cause of all instances of causation in reality corresponds to our information on the concept of God, namely, the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.

6. Conclusion: God exists in concept as first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.


What do you think about my proof for the existence of God?

(October 30, 2016 at 5:08 pm)Stimbo Wrote:

(October 30, 2016 at 4:33 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: So, I've been away a couple of days...


Can anyone please let me know if Marisep has ever responded to any of the refutations of his original argument?

Or is he still trying to prove his nose exists?

Too lazy to read over a couple of dozen pages.

Impossible to tell. Whether he knows it or not (and I doubt he has the nous), he's using the classic Civil Service trick of burying his points, such as they are, in amongst a shit-ton of waste material. So when someone calls him on something, he can claim that he's already addressed it - we just failed to understand it.

See? You can do it. Although there's no need to post all the post count data and online/offline stuff.

(October 31, 2016 at 1:29 pm)Whateverist Wrote:

(October 31, 2016 at 1:05 pm)Primordial Bisque Wrote: 1. Mister Agenda posted an example of how to prove the existence of something in objective reality.
2. I am unable provide this type of evidence, since it does not exist, and am left with naught but a nebulous concept and bad reasoning.
3. Therefore, Mister Agenda's post will be ignored, and I will just repost my OP.

Fooled me, thought it was troll for sure.

Nah, just doing some forecasting.

Dear atheist colleague Mathilda, please let us when you come over resume our exchange, and I propose we take up with cause, as when I was here last session, you said a first cause needs a cause also, to bring it to existence.


Now, to dear atheist colleagues here, you demand of me to know that it is not enough to prove in concepts that God exist, all in my mind, I must also go into demonstration outside of concepts in my mind.

Please read my proof again (see below), take up Steps Nos. 2 to 5.

Mariosep Wrote:ANNEX

(24th October 2016, 17:27)Mariosep Wrote:
This is my proof for God existing.

1. Formulate the information of the concept of God, thus:
"God in concept is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning."

2. Look for instances of causation in reality outside of concepts in our mind.

3. We find countless examples of causation in reality outside of concepts in our mind.

4. From the countless instances of causation in reality, we infer to the existence of a first and ultimate cause.

5. We find that the first and ultimate cause of all instances of causation in reality corresponds to our information on the concept of God, namely, the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.

6. Conclusion: God exists in concept as first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.


What do you think about my proof for the existence of God?

---

I am not responding to all of your posts, that is not necessary for the purpose of this thread.

I think that for my own saving of time and labor, to keep to the last page in every session I start with posting here.

We are now in page 38, and I am into the idea of cause, and also into proof by demonstration which to me is to look for instances of causation in the realm of objective reality outside of concepts in our mind.

Please read what I just posted, namely, that from the concept of God in my mind, namely, in concept God is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning, I proceed to the realm of objective reality to search for instances of the phenomenon of causation, and from all the instances of causation, reach the conclusion that there exists an entity corresponding to my concept of God.

Oh my...you are a special snowflake!

(October 31, 2016 at 2:49 pm)Mariosep Wrote: Please read what I just posted, namely, that from the concept of God in my mind, namely, in concept God is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning, I proceed to the realm of objective reality...

Not so fast!  You can't just generalize from your imagination to the real world like that.

If things could be created in real form just by imagining them, there would be a 6-foot-long metallic green dragon lounging beside My desk right now, sipping a double-double and eating a raspberry jambuster (and getting icing sugar all over the office floor), watching Casablanca for the 4,738th time on a tablet computer.

Oh, and the dragon's name is Glori and he does excellent Bogart impersonations, albeit with a very slight lisp.