(June 29, 2017 at 12:31 am)Aliza Wrote:

(June 29, 2017 at 12:06 am)Godscreated Wrote:  The OT shows us that the Jewish people believed they were tested as individuals and as a people. 
 Christians myself included seek to enjoy life but for me life would be less enjoyable without God in it.
 You are right the two have little in common mainly because of tradition, we do believe in the same God and this is why we are put under one umbrella.

GC

Christians believe that we believe in the same god, but educated Jews would disagree. The descriptions of our deities are different. 

Jewish tradition is detailed in the Talmud, not the Torah. To understand how Jews practice the religion and interact with the Torah, you'd have to be familiar with the Talmud.

 Deities?

GC

(June 29, 2017 at 12:53 am)Godscreated Wrote:

(June 29, 2017 at 12:31 am)Aliza Wrote: Christians believe that we believe in the same god, but educated Jews would disagree. The descriptions of our deities are different. 

Jewish tradition is detailed in the Talmud, not the Torah. To understand how Jews practice the religion and interact with the Torah, you'd have to be familiar with the Talmud.

 Deities?

GC

Did I use the term wrong? Jews don't recognize the attributes of the trinity god that Christians believe, even if a few attributes did come from Judaism. Looking at the description of the Jewish G-d and the Christian god, they do not appear to be the same entity. Jews do not acknowledge radical changes to the definition of G-d, as the Christians have done, so from a Jewish perspective, we are following different entities.

(June 29, 2017 at 1:12 am)Aliza Wrote:

(June 29, 2017 at 12:53 am)Godscreated Wrote:  Deities?

GC

Did I use the term wrong? Jews don't recognize the attributes of the trinity god that Christians believe, even if a few attributes did come from Judaism. Looking at the description of the Jewish G-d and the Christian god, they do not appear to be the same entity. Jews do not acknowledge radical changes to the definition of G-d, as the Christians have done, so from a Jewish perspective, we are following different entities.

Well technically both faiths should believe in multiple (nonspecific) deities because the same petty jealous creator god acknowledges the existence of others (you'd think it would have been possible to create existence without them) but is too insecure to share the wealth, and too weak to make a display of annihilating rivals.

(June 29, 2017 at 1:26 am)Astonished Wrote:

(June 29, 2017 at 1:12 am)Aliza Wrote: Did I use the term wrong? Jews don't recognize the attributes of the trinity god that Christians believe, even if a few attributes did come from Judaism. Looking at the description of the Jewish G-d and the Christian god, they do not appear to be the same entity. Jews do not acknowledge radical changes to the definition of G-d, as the Christians have done, so from a Jewish perspective, we are following different entities.

Well technically both faiths should believe in multiple (nonspecific) deities because the same petty jealous creator god acknowledges the existence of others (you'd think it would have been possible to create existence without them)  but is too insecure to share the wealth, and too weak to make a display of annihilating rivals.

I can't speak for Christianity, but Judaism believes what Judaism chooses to believe. You're of course welcome to have an opinion of what we "should" or "or should not" do based on whatever criteria you choose, but Judaism is defined only by what Jews believe.

(June 29, 2017 at 1:33 am)Aliza Wrote:

(June 29, 2017 at 1:26 am)Astonished Wrote: Well technically both faiths should believe in multiple (nonspecific) deities because the same petty jealous creator god acknowledges the existence of others (you'd think it would have been possible to create existence without them)  but is too insecure to share the wealth, and too weak to make a display of annihilating rivals.

I can't speak for Christianity, but Judaism believes what Judaism chooses to believe. You're of course welcome to have an opinion of what we "should" or "or should not" do based on whatever criteria you choose, but Judaism is defined only by what Jews believe.

Right, because the books are so muddled it's impossible to do anything but interpret them selectively. Really kind of goes against the whole 'we have the TRUTH' shtick they're always jawing on about.

(June 28, 2017 at 9:33 pm)SteveII Wrote: Actually, I'm going skip over whatever it is you typed in reply and stick to fairly strict policy to ignore people who can't possible say anything that would add anything to any conversation I want to be part of.

So why the fuck did you ask!!

(June 29, 2017 at 1:44 am)Astonished Wrote:

(June 29, 2017 at 1:33 am)Aliza Wrote: I can't speak for Christianity, but Judaism believes what Judaism chooses to believe. You're of course welcome to have an opinion of what we "should" or "or should not" do based on whatever criteria you choose, but Judaism is defined only by what Jews believe.

Right, because the books are so muddled it's impossible to do anything but interpret them selectively. Really kind of goes against the whole 'we have the TRUTH' shtick they're always jawing on about.

When I start a new math class, I like to flip to the back of the book to see what I'm in for for the semester. The later chapters look very muddled to me, and I often wonder how I'll ever be able to work out the complex equations. But, as I work through the textbook and take my final exam, I find I've breezed through the class and am well prepared for the final. Calculus is not intended for people who haven't studied the basic principles of mathematicians. Likewise, Judaism is not intended for people who have no background in Jewish thought. If Judaism appears muddled to you then I'd imagine it's because you have no foundation in Jewish studies. It's most certainly not muddled to Jews. 

Jews do believe that we have the truth for Jews. We also believe there are many truths for many different groups of people. It's for this reason that Jews don't proselytize; it's because we legitimately believe that other people are just fine doing their own thing (with the caveat that they're not hurting us, themselves, or others, and are generally playing nice with the rest of human civilization.)

(June 29, 2017 at 7:01 am)Succubus Wrote:

(June 28, 2017 at 9:33 pm)SteveII Wrote: Actually, I'm going skip over whatever it is you typed in reply and stick to fairly strict policy to ignore people who can't possible say anything that would add anything to any conversation I want to be part of.

So why the fuck did you ask!!

When I asked, I had somewhat forgotten what type of person he was. Seeing a couple of replies in another thread reminded me that he is of no consequence and who's opinions mean less that the effort to even see them on my feed let alone read or respond to them. I was going to say at this point, if I were an atheists, I would be embarrassed by such a person just as I am embarrassed when some religious nuts, who should not be allowed near a keyboard, type outlandish replies. But it is more than that. Any intelligent person should be embarrassed by such a systematic display of, which can only be described as, a boorish attempt to halt discussion and viciously squash opposing opinions.

In case you think I exaggerate, click here. The irony of the context of the post being the church opposing divergent thought is humorous but I suspect lost on him. 

In fact, I see a real slide in quality of discussion here (at least in the Religion forum) and have seen people in the past year who come back infrequently or have left altogether that had kept the level of discourse at a significantly more civil and intelligent level.

(June 29, 2017 at 9:46 am)SteveII Wrote:

(June 29, 2017 at 7:01 am)Succubus Wrote: So why the fuck did you ask!!

When I asked, I had somewhat forgotten what type of person he was. Seeing a couple of replies in another thread reminded me that he is of no consequence and who's opinions mean less that the effort to even see them on my feed let alone read or respond to them. I was going to say at this point, if I were an atheists, I would be embarrassed by such a person just as I am embarrassed when some religious nuts, who should not be allowed near a keyboard, type outlandish replies. But it is more than that. Any intelligent person should be embarrassed by such a systematic display of, which can only be described as, a boorish attempt to halt discussion and viciously squash opposing opinions.

In case you think I exaggerate, click here. The irony of the context of the post being the church opposing divergent thought is humorous but I suspect lost on him. 

In fact, I see a real slide in quality of discussion here (at least in the Religion forum) and have seen people in the past year who come back infrequently or have left altogether that had kept the level of discourse at a significantly more civil and intelligent level.

Your stuck-up dipshittery and hypocrisy are absolutely fucking laughable, slick. Go ahead, pat yourself on the back for copying and pasting something someone more eloquent than yourself and figuring out how to transpose the right terms so that it suits your side, nobody would ever figure that out. When you're this hard-headed and exasperating, you cease to be an amusing chimp in the zoo spreading its ass cheeks as the viewers, and instead take on more of a 'oh, look, it thinks it's people and is giving us the finger even though it doesn't know what it means' lack of appeal and are simply inviting someone to toss their drink and popcorn at it to get it to stop. That fact that everything we're trying to correct you about, and your incapability or unwillingness to grasp that, is on you, and you still project it onto us for getting fed up with your dumb ass, so get the fuck off your high horse and shove it up your ass.

(June 25, 2017 at 11:58 am)Whateverist Wrote:

(June 25, 2017 at 10:42 am)Roeki Wrote: So basically humans are puppets. Or no, pawn in some kind of game. God is the dungeon master, and humans are the chess pieces. Don't see how an all wise god would think that is a good idea, unless he is incredibly bored.

I also had to search up if the islamic God is supposed to be good. He seems to atleast reward good behavior.

Yeah i still dont see how this makes sense? Like to me it just seems he's incredibly immorale if that is the case. I mean if the idea is to create a world for failed models to strive instead of having a world where people get along.

No, humans aren't puppets and God is not real.  Why do you think otherwise?  And if you think the idea of giving God a role in human affairs is as silly as using us as finger puppets for His self amusement .. why do you think he has any role whatsoever?  Are you a deist then?

You are totally right, but I am afraid you missed the conclusion.

Yes, if there is a Will/Power behind our existence, it would be non-sense, if not silly, if it looks using me as a puppet to amuse any other being, on earth or elsewhere.

Also, it would be non-sense if it forced me to exist in this life for no reason.

But actually there is a third point (possibility) which has nothing to do with the previous two.
Could you guess it?

I am afraid one can know it or, at least, imagine it only if he has the chance to be a real free independent person.