(August 22, 2017 at 10:30 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote:

(August 19, 2017 at 8:27 pm)Astreja Wrote: It isn't an opinion so much as a recognition of how the human mind actually works.  If your "soul" can't keep you self-aware in low-frequency deep sleep, not even to dream, what makes you think you'll have awareness when your brain is dead and producing no waveforms at all?

If the "soul" is where the "you" exists, why can't these asshats explain the personality changes, sometimes quite drastic, that can occur after severe head trauma? Or, split personalities following a corpus callosotomy. It seems to me that "souls" are a convenient way to say "I really don't know fuck-all about this" without having to admit that you really know fuck-all about it. Of course, with GC's propensity to deny science and try to pass off woo as science, I'd have to guess that knowing fuck-all is his default state.

 You want me to answer a post you should direct it towards me. The soul is a created thing, it's there for us to be able to communicate with God, it is who we are spiritually. It does interact with the physical us as long as we are allowing God to be in our lives. The Holy Spirit speaks to our soul (heart) to convict us of our wrongs in life. The soul can't be a part of any science because it is spirit and undetectable by the physical sciences. I do not deny science and you know that, why you keep saying such is beyond me. I do not pass off woo as science, just because you can't answer science questions I pose from time to time doesn't make the question woo. Of coarse you're not going to like any of the above answer but then I doubt you like/care about anything Christians say.

GC

(August 24, 2017 at 11:32 pm)Godscreated Wrote:

(August 22, 2017 at 10:30 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote: If the "soul" is where the "you" exists, why can't these asshats explain the personality changes, sometimes quite drastic, that can occur after severe head trauma? Or, split personalities following a corpus callosotomy. It seems to me that "souls" are a convenient way to say "I really don't know fuck-all about this" without having to admit that you really know fuck-all about it. Of course, with GC's propensity to deny science and try to pass off woo as science, I'd have to guess that knowing fuck-all is his default state.

 You want me to answer a post you should direct it towards me. The soul is a created thing, it's there for us to be able to communicate with God, it is who we are spiritually. It does interact with the physical us as long as we are allowing God to be in our lives. The Holy Spirit speaks to our soul (heart) to convict us of our wrongs in life. The soul can't be a part of any science because it is spirit and undetectable by the physical sciences. I do not deny science and you know that, why you keep saying such is beyond me. I do not pass off woo as science, just because you can't answer science questions I pose from time to time doesn't make the question woo. Of coarse you're not going to like any of the above answer but then I doubt you like/care about anything Christians say.

GC

(bolding mine)

I think we can agree; not if they're Mormon.

(August 24, 2017 at 11:22 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(August 24, 2017 at 4:40 pm)Godscreated Wrote:  Funny you should say the above, (bold by me). Because Christians do not get what we deserve, it comes through the grace of God alone. Now atheist according to God will get what they deserve and in the end they will not want it, they will want what they rejected and if they hadn't rejected Him would have gotten what they did not deserve.

GC

Christian justice at work, I suppose.  No wonder it's so easy to cheer for scapegoating, after having already bought in on -that- shit.  The overarching theme of jesusism - cronyism pays, accountability does not.

Fundy christers must be absolutely wretched, to uniformly deserve damnation.  Maybe they should keep believing big brother is watching, after all?

 Jesus took our sin upon Himself, I did not have to place it there, so your scapegoat deal is as dead as you seem to be. We all deserve damnation, if it wasn't for Jesus dying for us and the grace of God we all would be in hell. 

GC

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(August 24, 2017 at 11:42 pm)vorlon13 Wrote:

(August 24, 2017 at 11:32 pm)Godscreated Wrote:  You want me to answer a post you should direct it towards me. The soul is a created thing, it's there for us to be able to communicate with God, it is who we are spiritually. It does interact with the physical us as long as we are allowing God to be in our lives. The Holy Spirit speaks to our soul (heart) to convict us of our wrongs in life. The soul can't be a part of any science because it is spirit and undetectable by the physical sciences. I do not deny science and you know that, why you keep saying such is beyond me. I do not pass off woo as science, just because you can't answer science questions I pose from time to time doesn't make the question woo. Of coarse you're not going to like any of the above answer but then I doubt you like/care about anything Christians say.

GC

(bolding mine)

I think we can agree; not if they're Mormon.

 The Holy Spirit speaks to everyone's soul to convict them of their sin, doesn't matter if people do/don't believe it. This is God calling to us to repent and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. I'm not familiar with much of the Mormon belief about the Holy Spirit, maybe you will share a bit of that with me.

GC

I don't think you can really speak for anyone else on this one buddy.  If you absolutely insist that you're some sort of monstrous degenerate who should burn in the fires of hell for all eternity..then so be it.  There's still the issue of the rest of us, who aren't.

Whether the better man is forced or willingly beaten for my crimes, he;s still a scapegoat...and personally, I;m not the sort of degenerate that accepts such an arrangement even if it were offered. So I guess points to you, on that count. You really might be as broken as you say you are.

(August 24, 2017 at 4:40 pm)Godscreated Wrote:

(August 24, 2017 at 10:53 am)Astreja Wrote: A truly good deity would not create a hell.

A truly evil one would both create a hell and allow suffering to continue there eternally.  No amount of blaming the victim can excuse such a monstrous moral failure, and hypocrisy as well:  The agony of one mortal trapped in hell until the end of time infinitely surpasses the pain allegedly suffered by Jesus on the cross, yet it is for not accepting those comparatively insignificant three hours that the condemned mortal becomes the real sacrifice, the real martyr.

1) Why? Is it because it forces you to make a decision, forces you out of your comfort zone, that's only temporary. 
 
 2) Why? Justice has to be served for all and that in itself eliminates 'blaming the victim.' There is no hypocrisy on God's part and the moral failure is on humanity. God provided a way and those who do not choose to follow Jesus can not have their sins forgiven. How fair would it be for those who accepted Christ and are forgiven and then God forgive those who rejected Christ and fought against those who accepted Him. I'm going to say this until someone understands it, God is eternal and all sin that's committed is against His eternal nature and without forgiveness that sin will remain forever and thus the eternal punishment. It doesn't matter whether you agree with God, it's not your universe, your creation. God rules over all of it and His word is finial, there is no arguing your way out of it.

3) The bold above by me shows me you were never in the knowledge of what Christ actually did. You think Christ called out to the Father because He was in physical pain, rehash that thought. Jesus spent quite a bit of time being beaten by a whip that was as cruel as any devise ever invented by man to be used upon man, He never cried out once, even though His flesh was being stripped from His body. Have a try at it and see how long you would last. You should understand what Jesus was crying out about, if you ever do you might just see Him in the light that makes a difference in your life. When I realized it I was broken.

Good deities do not create hells.  I will not compromise on this point -- ever.

Eternal torture is not justice.  I will also not compromise on this point.

Finally, as I believe "Christ" to be a fictionalized character and consider substitutionary atonement to be utterly morally bankrupt in all respects, "Christ" did nothing at all.

You are still broken, GC, both intellectually and morally, and it is your beliefs that made you so.

(August 24, 2017 at 7:43 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote:

(August 24, 2017 at 4:40 pm)Godscreated Wrote: I believe I answered all your post to me, if you do not think so and apparently you don't the tell me which one it is, thanks.

GC

On another note, do you believe your gawd will forgive people after he's tossed them into hell like so much rubbish into the incinerator?

 God doesn't treat people like rubbish, people choose hell and God gives them what they chose. If they do not want to spend eternity with God then He will not force them. The scriptures tell us once a person dies his/her chances are over, that's the end point, you're judged and given the punishment you chose for disobedience. God deals in eternal things not temporal.

GC

No, he doesn't, rubbish..generally, isn't subjected to eternal torture. My dog might choose to drink antifreeze. I won't let him. My kids choose to stick metallic objects into light sockets. I don't let them. Both disobey me...constantly, and yet somehow I manage not to brutalize either of them for it - no matter how much they "deserve" it.

Your god is so comically evil and derelict that rather than be horrified..it just makes me giggle. In any case, god doesn't deal in anything, god doesn't exist. His followers, however..do, and they peddle some sick shit.

(August 25, 2017 at 12:01 am)Godscreated Wrote: God doesn't treat people like rubbish, people choose hell and God gives them what they chose.

No sane person chooses eternal torture.  "People choose hell" is just a feeble excuse you use to avoid confronting the fact that you willingly worship an evil god.

(August 24, 2017 at 11:56 pm)Astreja Wrote:

(August 24, 2017 at 4:40 pm)Godscreated Wrote:

---

1) Why? Is it because it forces you to make a decision, forces you out of your comfort zone, that's only temporary. 
 
 2) Why? Justice has to be served for all and that in itself eliminates 'blaming the victim.' There is no hypocrisy on God's part and the moral failure is on humanity. God provided a way and those who do not choose to follow Jesus can not have their sins forgiven. How fair would it be for those who accepted Christ and are forgiven and then God forgive those who rejected Christ and fought against those who accepted Him. I'm going to say this until someone understands it, God is eternal and all sin that's committed is against His eternal nature and without forgiveness that sin will remain forever and thus the eternal punishment. It doesn't matter whether you agree with God, it's not your universe, your creation. God rules over all of it and His word is finial, there is no arguing your way out of it.

3) The bold above by me shows me you were never in the knowledge of what Christ actually did. You think Christ called out to the Father because He was in physical pain, rehash that thought. Jesus spent quite a bit of time being beaten by a whip that was as cruel as any devise ever invented by man to be used upon man, He never cried out once, even though His flesh was being stripped from His body. Have a try at it and see how long you would last. You should understand what Jesus was crying out about, if you ever do you might just see Him in the light that makes a difference in your life. When I realized it I was broken.

---

Good deities do not create hells.  I will not compromise on this point -- ever.

There are no god's but the one true living God, that being said you have nothing to compare God to. You may not, doesn't change the fact that hell is as real as we are and that those who refuse Jesus will be there, I get this from the scriptures and I'm using it as information not threats, so please don't get bent over this statement.

Astreja Wrote:Eternal torture is not justice.  I will also not compromise on this point.

The law and the court belong to the eternal God who says justice is eternal, justice being reward and punishment. This is another thing your stubborn nature can not change and results in the same outcome, sorry but that's how it will be according to God.

Astreja Wrote:Finally, as I believe "Christ" to be a fictionalized character and consider substitutionary atonement to be utterly morally bankrupt in all respects, "Christ" did nothing at all.

You can believe this till the day you die (I'm hoping not), but it want change the fact that Christ is real and gave up much to make it possible for us to have eternal life with Him. You have your opinion about substitutionary atonement but substitutionary atonement was His choice even before creation. God's requirement to enter heaven is for one to be sinless and there is no way under the sun we could ever live a life sinless. There is no way we could ever pay for our own sin, it's just not humanly possible. So one must accept Christ for who He is and what He did for us, He did this of His own free will and love for us. All your opinions about who Christ is and what He did want change the reality of the eternal justice God will give to all people, like I said above, it's His laws and court.

Astreja Wrote:You are still broken, GC, both intellectually and morally, and it is your beliefs that made you so.

  Intellectually and morally broken, why because I care enough to tell people what I know as fact, I'm sorry you see it that way. In the end all that matters is God's truth and that I have accepted it totally. I'm not ashame of what I profess and who I believe in, it is a life that brings great joy to me.

GC

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(August 25, 2017 at 12:04 am)Astreja Wrote:

(August 25, 2017 at 12:01 am)Godscreated Wrote: God doesn't treat people like rubbish, people choose hell and God gives them what they chose.

No sane person chooses eternal torture.  "People choose hell" is just a feeble excuse you use to avoid confronting the fact that you willingly worship an evil god.

   It's not torture it is a chosen punishment, there's a big difference. I worship a loving God, one who gave His all for me and the rest of the world, it's just to bad you can't see what I know. You say no sane person would chose eternal hell, I'm in agreement.

GC

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(August 25, 2017 at 12:03 am)Khemikal Wrote: No, he doesn't, rubbish..generally, isn't subjected to eternal torture.  My dog might choose to drink antifreeze.  I won't let him.  My kids choose to stick metallic objects into light sockets.  I don't let them.  Both disobey me...constantly, and yet somehow I manage not to brutalize either of them for it - no matter how much they "deserve" it.

Your god is so comically evil and derelict that rather than be horrified..it just makes me giggle.  In any case, god doesn't deal in anything, god doesn't exist.  His followers, however..do, and they peddle some sick shit.

 If they deserve punishment then they should receive it, punishment in their case isn't a bad thing (well maybe in their opinion it is), it is a teaching tool to help set them on a good coarse for the future.

 Looks like you are going to stay the coarse even if it means eternal punishment, the post above this to Astreja, I reply about what it take to choose such a coarse.

GC

Quote:Godscreated wrote:

The Holy Spirit speaks to everyone's soul to convict them of their sin, doesn't matter if people do/don't believe it. This is God calling to us to repent and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. I'm not familiar with much of the Mormon belief about the Holy Spirit, maybe you will share a bit of that with me.

GC

From wiki (as good as anything that attempts to explain Mormon befuddlement)

In orthodox Mormonism, the term God generally refers to the biblical God the Father, whom Mormons sometimes call Elohim, and the term Godhead refers to a council of three distinct divine persons consisting of God the Father, Jesus (his firstborn Son, whom Mormons sometimes call Jehovah), and the Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit). Mormons believe that the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost are three distinct beings, and that the Father and Jesus have perfected, glorified, physical bodies, while the Holy Ghost is a spirit without a physical body.[1] Mormons also believe that there are other gods and goddesses outside of the Godhead, such as a Heavenly Mother who is the wife of God the Father, and that faithful Mormons may attain godhood in the afterlife.[2]
This conception differs from the traditional Christian Trinity in several ways, one of which is that Mormonism has not adopted or continued the doctrine that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are of the same substance or being. Also, Mormonism teaches that the intelligence dwelling in each human is coeternal with God.[3] While Mormons use the term omnipotent to describe God, and regard him as the creator, they do not understand him as having absolutely unlimited power, and do not teach that he is the ex nihilo creator of all things.[4] The Mormon conception of God also differs substantially from the Jewish tradition of ethical monotheism in which elohim (אֱלֹהִים) is a completely different conception.
This description of God represents the Mormon orthodoxy, formalized in 1915 based on earlier teachings.