(September 1, 2017 at 4:22 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(September 1, 2017 at 4:14 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Because it's the whole back drop of "religious freedom" that was the impetus that fueled this. That includes racism. 

Religious objections to culture, color, thought, sect, abortion, politics, gender, discrimination, ........... are not included in religious freedom. Much as many would like them to be. 

You're welcome to your religion, enjoy it all you want. But your do not have the right to impose it on others. Your religious freedom stops where my noise starts. End of story.

Still don't see how the white supremacists' right to march around with swastikas and spew racist BS has anything to do with religious freedom, but ok.

Here is a good example 

https://thehumanist.com/news/religion/5-...ate-groups

people who have that mindset run the GOP and the Democratic party. HRC is a racist Trump is a racist Pence is a well there is many racist people in government positions. 
We just got lucky with Gay marriage because you know we caught congress on a good day. HRC didn't come around to marriage equality until 2013 its still not liked by the GOP voters. We only lifted the ban on it no so long ago. 

Why are people upset because religious reasons and the reason why it was banned religious reasons. Yes it is breaking a amendment church and state separation to be exact 
marriage isn't never was a religious thing. And in fact now there is places trying to ban same sex marriage. if that's not a clear enough example i dont know what is.

(September 1, 2017 at 2:31 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

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(September 1, 2017 at 2:21 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I'm pretty sure people are aware racism exists in America. Discussing how to deal with it ... well, that's a bit of a slog, don't you think? I've had tough discussions with friends about racist things they've said. You know what didn't happen? They did not recant their racism. It doesn't work that way except in very, very few instances.

I think one thing we can carry away from Charlottesville is that the radical right feel emboldened enough to publicly march under a swastika flag. At that point, I think discussion is useless hand-wringing, because these are people who are not interested in discussions. I think another thing we can carry away from Charlottesville is that these neo-NZis are willing to resort to violence as well as violent imagery in order to gain their political ends. That being the case, that once more renders discussion nugatory.

I don't walk away from the discussion, I'm just not under any illusions about its potential for productivity. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think.

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Quote:Yep, there was a time when America could have ignored these sickos when they were under their rocks. The problem is now that there is an asshole in the White House who has for the past 5 years dog whistled at them. I'm only hoping between Heather's unfortunate death, and the overwhelming support of Texas after Harvey, the swing voters and moderates on the right will be increasingly less likely to allow more embolden of these sickos.

There is no polite discussion to be had with a White Nationalist. It would be like a Jew trying to convince a Nazi not to gas them. But you can challenge media and politicians not to pander to them. Politicians set the tone.

So many nice racists to choose from =  http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish...o-gentiles

Even IF their white supremacy is a religious belief of sorts, I don't see how them being legally allowed to march around with swastikas while spewing racist BS is a religious freedom thing. Seems more like a freedom of speech thing.

(September 1, 2017 at 9:05 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Even IF their white supremacy is a religious belief of sorts, I don't see how them being legally allowed to march around with swastikas while spewing racist BS is a religious freedom thing. Seems more like a freedom of speech thing.

CL we already had a time when sickos outnumbered the sane in this country, back then blacks were being lynched and juries stacked against them to convict them. We still have a problem with the rate of incarceration hurting blacks and Hispanics even today. 

Incitement to violence is their goal, not merely " you suck" or "bullshit". When you have sickos showing up with weapons of war, the visual is not free speech, it is a challenge, an act of intimidation. 

Freedom of speech does include protecting offensive speech, but we are not at a point right now where it is merely where we can respond "what a fucking asshole". It is political and not simply about dissent. It is literally about undermining our values of pluralism, just like the Nazis of WW2 Germany.

Charlottesville meant one thing: Stupid people do stupid things. If you get enough of them together, they do those things at a stupid scale.
About the same as we have seen throughout recorded history.

(September 1, 2017 at 9:05 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Even IF their white supremacy is a religious belief of sorts, I don't see how them being legally allowed to march around with swastikas while spewing racist BS is a religious freedom thing. Seems more like a freedom of speech thing.

I'm with you on this, but I think it is an issue of parsing out where the religious/speech freedom ends and the racism starts. The swastikas and hoods are allowed under the freedom of speech, while racist as hell. And I think that these people are laying the allowance of those things on their religious beliefs to get a free ride. They are wrong as hell about what they are doing, IMO, and are laying about for any way to justify it. If I made any sense; it's been a long day.

Did those nazis claim religious freedom as their right to march around the way they did?

Anyhow, I will say that while I think it is absolutely disgusting and despicable, I still do support their right to have done it. Just as I support the right for people to have justifiably protested against their message of hate. As long as there is no violence from either side, of which I do not support in any case.

(September 1, 2017 at 9:25 pm)Court Jester Wrote: Charlottesville meant one thing: Stupid people do stupid things. If you get enough of them together, they do those things at a stupid scale.
About the same as we have seen throughout recorded history.

No, as I said in my prior post in this thread. I would be nice to have the luxury of ignoring the sickos, but the problem for the past 8 years but especially since Trump took the mask of the GOP dog whistle talk, we are now dealing with sickos whom feel politically emboldened. 

You wouldn't call a Muslim terrorist slamming a car into pedestrians stupid, you would call them rightfully terrorists. A defenseless protester died because someone sick fucks sold that sick fuck the idea his "whiteness" was an endangered species. 

Calling white nationalists stupid is a mistake. You can be stupid, and motivated and dangerous at the same time.

One asshole who was part of that rally afterwards  was asked if he was sorry she died, he said no. That sick fuck is as bad as ISIS to me. Heather Heyer was UNARMED and protesting peacefully against the bullshit idea that there is a master race.  Trump would claim his rhetoric was not responsible. I say he was, because he was not a no name he was throwing red meat to the far right and using political office to do it. If you go to White Nationalist websites such as the KKK or Neo Nazis or even individuals whom support that, you will find 99% support Trump. 


When you show up with weapons of war you are not simply advocating free speech, your intent is to show dominance no different than ISIS.

Trump riled up this lot as surly as if he went on stage in a clan hood . The alt right movement is just latest manifestion of racism . It's time you conservatards woke up a smelled the coffee. Instead of downplaying the them .

(September 1, 2017 at 11:10 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Did those nazis claim religious freedom as their right to march around the way they did?

Anyhow, I will say that while I think it is absolutely disgusting and despicable, I still do support their right to have done it. Just as I support the right for people to have justifiably protested against their message of hate. As long as there is no violence from either side, of which I do not support in any case.

I don't especially when you show up with weapons of war. They had no intent to protect offensive speech. Their intent was to sell the idea that they are the alpha male and racial pluralism was not an option. The KKK and Neo Nazis in America is the opposite of modern pluralism. 

I accept that you say you don't support them. But what they are doing is a political tactic, not a free speech defense. Their ideology is to destroy pluralism, not protect it. Their ideology isn't to protect offensive speech but to destroy pluralism. 

It took the civil rights movement to break the backs of sickos like this. It took lawsuits to financially force them back under the rocks they live under. Again, if you think it is merely about free speech for them, all you have to do is look to Nazi Germany. All you have to do is to KNOW that at one point in American history, in the 1920s we had a majority congress whom were card carrying KKK members. 

This isn't about merely offending for them. Just like ISIS they want to destroy dissent and be the only power.