(September 14, 2017 at 10:19 am)Harry Nevis Wrote:

(September 13, 2017 at 9:41 pm)Godscreated Wrote:  The problem you have begins by believing I'm delusional and the next part of the problem you have is believing I'm trying to sale you something. I was given the gift of salvation through grace and it's not for sale, gifts are not bought they are given through love and all i'm trying to do is show people that God loves them despite what they want to believe.
I gave you a long response in another thread and you chose not to respond and that's fine, but there was one question I asked you that I was hoping to get an answer to and I believe that question is why you did not respond.

GC

No, you've CONVINCED us that you're delusional.  So, until we see evidence to the contrary.  All you are showing is that, for some reason, people grow into adulthood still "believing makes it so".

 I wish you restrain yourself from answering my posts to others, I have enough to answer without you do this.

I have proof God is who He says He is and that the whole of the Bible is true, it's nothing you would accept, but then it wasn't meant for you anyway.

GC

(September 14, 2017 at 11:57 pm)Godscreated Wrote:

(September 14, 2017 at 3:36 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: So you are projecting by saying that I'm confused while in your confusion you fail to explain why you constantly put Jesus and evolution in the same context and yet claim that evolution never happened.

I've never associated Jesus Christ the creator with evolution, you are flat out lying or you are confused, take your choice but one of the two are true and possibly both.

You did, you said that when scientists are observing evolution in lab that they are playing Jesus.

(September 14, 2017 at 4:49 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote:

(September 13, 2017 at 9:41 pm)Godscreated Wrote: I haven't contradicted myself it's your confused brain that's the problem. Scientist go into the lab and try a controlled experiment and then claim it's evolution. Evolution, as I stated earlier has to be without exception a natural uncontrolled action outside any lab, other wise it's a scientist trying to play a god.

You really have no fucking clue how controls work in science do you?

Yes I do and it isn't what happens in nature.

(September 13, 2017 at 9:41 pm)Godscreated Wrote: Evolution has never been observed in nature, period , and a statement that it has would be a lie.

TGB Wrote:Bullshit! You're a liar and a fraud.

I would highly recommend you read this link, especially given your propensity to misrepresent the very misconceptions listed as scientific facts.

If you're really interested in truth, as you so vociferously claim, perhaps you can simply type "evolution observed in nature" into google (or click here as I've done it for you) and get your ignorant self educated

Wow someone got their shorts in a knot, calm down it's not the end of the world, yet. Evolution has been redefined so many times one could hardly keep up with it and most of that redefinition has come because of the work of scientist outside the belief of evolution. No one has ever seen anything change from one type to another, ever. I've seen all that stuff evolutionary science claims and all those things are still the same thing except for some loss of information in DNA. Why is that so hard for you to see.

(September 13, 2017 at 9:41 pm)Godscreated Wrote: The problem you have begins by believing I'm delusional and the next part of the problem you have is believing I'm trying to sale you something. I was given the gift of salvation through grace and it's not for sale, gifts are not bought they are given through love and all I'm trying to do is show people that God loves them despite what they want to believe.
I gave you a long response in another thread and you chose not to respond and that's fine, but there was one question I asked you that I was hoping to get an answer to and I believe that question is why you did not respond.

TGB Wrote:Yes, GC, you are quite deluded. You believe a fairy tale as truth.

Nope, again you're wrong and as I've said many times before, death will reveal the truth.

TGB Wrote:Yes, GC, you're making a sales pitch whether you recognize it or not.

Nope, like I said I have nothing to sale you, I do try and show people what I know to be the truth and that's God. You see I realize what I'm doing, it's you who gets upset and goes off the deep end and make claims about me that are not true.
 

TGB Wrote:That one question you wanted an answer to... Why don't you restate it here, or at least link me to the post. I must have missed it, especially if it was in one of you walls of text. After all, it's hard to sort through your drivel, especially when you speak as if English is a second language.

I asked you if anyone had ever told you that God saves in His time and that you might have been outside His timing. God isn't going to give you an invitation until you are ready. That's why I also asked you if you knew what omnipresence meant as applied to God, another question you did not answer. Now I know that's two questions but it shouldn't take all that much effort to give me an answer to them. 

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(September 13, 2017 at 9:41 pm)Godscreated Wrote: you were not there six million years ago and by that alone can't make any real testament.

TGB Wrote:You were not there when your gawd allegedly created the earth and by that alone can't make any real testament.

 You are right I wasn't there, God was and in a very simple way gave us an explanation He seen as appropriate. I stand on what God says not man, man is fallible, God is perfect.
You know when people pick on the way I write I know they've little to argue with. You are welcome to point out that I have trouble, but you can't deny that I do not let it deter me.

GC

(September 15, 2017 at 12:46 am)Godscreated Wrote: I have proof God is who He says He is and that the whole of the Bible is true,

Then name us some archaeological discovery that proves any of the stories in the Bible happened or that your god is real. Or maybe name us museums that hold same. Tell us which of at least six tombs claimed to be Daniel's from the Bible is the real one.

Or is it the way you know Bible is real is the same way you handle your Jesus and evolution in the same context fiasco - you simply deny it happened until you convince yourself it happened just as you wish it.

(September 15, 2017 at 12:46 am)Godscreated Wrote: it's nothing you would accept, but then it wasn't meant for you anyway.

Of course since Bible reads like instruction manual for achieving a divided, angry, and violent world. It does not appear to be a recipe for peace and unity. It is a very miserable message from a god, since it was able to convince only a minority of people.

(September 15, 2017 at 2:45 am)Godscreated Wrote: Wow someone got their shorts in a knot, calm down it's not the end of the world, yet. Evolution has been redefined so many times one could hardly keep up with it and most of that redefinition has come because of the work of scientist outside the belief of evolution. No one has ever seen anything change from one type to another, ever. I've seen all that stuff evolutionary science claims and all those things are still the same thing except for some loss of information in DNA. Why is that so hard for you to see.

I'm not sure why you'd say that, again, after having gotten examples of it in this thread, not but a few posts back. Yes, we have observed speciation in the lab and in nature. We've even observed the evolution of a new -genera-.....which is a fair few steps "up" the ladder from your weasel words "kind" and "type".

If your rejection of evolutionary biology hinges upon this retarded and oft repeated statement being true than your rejection of evolutionary biology is groundless. What you thought had never happened, has happened quite alot. So, incorporate that, stop lying about evolution, and come up with a new excuse. Similarly, what you think must happen for evolution to be true, has nothing to do with evolution, so stop lying about evolution...and come up with a new excuse.

I repeat: I was there six million years ago, in fact I was there fourteen thousand million years ago and every time since then. I will have been there thousands of millions of years in the future, too. And I have proof of this. Unfortunately, it's proof that you won't accept.

(September 15, 2017 at 12:46 am)Godscreated Wrote:

(September 14, 2017 at 10:19 am)Harry Nevis Wrote: No, you've CONVINCED us that you're delusional.  So, until we see evidence to the contrary.  All you are showing is that, for some reason, people grow into adulthood still "believing makes it so".

 I wish you restrain yourself from answering my posts to others, I have enough to answer without you do this.

I have proof God is who He says He is and that the whole of the Bible is true, it's nothing you would accept, but then it wasn't meant for you anyway.

GC

Bite me.  If no one but believers would accept your proof, it isn't proof of anything but your delusions.

You know, I'm not even going to attempt to parse the rest of the willful ignorance in your last reply to me. I'll let it all stand on it's ow (lack of) merits.

(September 15, 2017 at 2:45 am)Godscreated Wrote:

The Gentleman Bastard Wrote:That one question you wanted an answer to... Why don't you restate it here, or at least link me to the post. I must have missed it, especially if it was in one of you walls of text. After all, it's hard to sort through your drivel, especially when you speak as if English is a second language.

I asked you if anyone had ever told you that God saves in His time and that you might have been outside His timing. God isn't going to give you an invitation until you are ready. That's why I also asked you if you knew what omnipresence meant as applied to God, another question you did not answer. Now I know that's two questions but it shouldn't take all that much effort to give me an answer to them. 

Do you have any fucking idea how many different variations I've heard about how your gawd "saves," all from people just as certain as you that their version is the absolute word of gawd truth? The same with omnipresence. Now, I know you're gonna want to argue that your absolute word of gawd truth is even truthier than their absolute word of gawd truth. Please, spare me. You have no evidence. You have no facts. You have no knowledge. You don't even have your gawd's words, but the words of men being passed off as the words of your gawd.

It's really very simple GC. I tried to get in communion with your gawd. It answered with nothing. Nada, nil, zilch, absolutely fuck-all. You want me to believe the timing wasn't right? I say bullshit. If your omniscient gawd wanted me, it would have known the timing would never be better. Still the answer was a complete and utter lack of answer, so quit trying to sell me. I'm not falling for the con.

(September 15, 2017 at 3:25 am)Fake Messiah Wrote:

(September 15, 2017 at 12:46 am)Godscreated Wrote: it's nothing you would accept, but then it wasn't meant for you anyway.

Of course since Bible reads like instruction manual for achieving a divided, angry, and violent world. It does not appear to be a recipe for peace and unity. It is a very miserable message from a god, since it was able to convince only a minority of people.

 Jesus told us to love our neighbors as ourselves, this in itself would do away with any hatred in the world, so you're wrong about what the Bible teaches.

GC

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(September 15, 2017 at 7:40 am)Khemikal Wrote:

(September 15, 2017 at 2:45 am)Godscreated Wrote: Wow someone got their shorts in a knot, calm down it's not the end of the world, yet. Evolution has been redefined so many times one could hardly keep up with it and most of that redefinition has come because of the work of scientist outside the belief of evolution. No one has ever seen anything change from one type to another, ever. I've seen all that stuff evolutionary science claims and all those things are still the same thing except for some loss of information in DNA. Why is that so hard for you to see.

I'm not sure why you'd say that, again, after having gotten examples of it in this thread, not but a few posts back.  Yes, we have observed speciation in the lab and in nature.  We've even observed the evolution of a new -genera-.....which is a fair few steps "up" the ladder from your weasel words "kind" and "type".

If your rejection of evolutionary biology hinges upon this retarded and oft repeated statement being true than your rejection of evolutionary biology is groundless.  What you thought had never happened, has happened quite alot.  So, incorporate that, stop lying about evolution, and come up with a new excuse.  Similarly, what you think must happen for evolution to be true, has nothing to do with evolution, so stop lying about evolution...and come up with a new excuse.

 Wrong, no new info can be added to DNA, so no new creature. Speciation is only a change in a type to adjust to environmental changes and that is a result of loss of information or it was turned off in favor of something more advantageous already present in the DNA, no new info is added.

GC

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(September 20, 2017 at 8:42 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote: You know, I'm not even going to attempt to parse the rest of the willful ignorance in your last reply to me. I'll let it all stand on it's ow (lack of) merits.

(September 15, 2017 at 2:45 am)Godscreated Wrote: I asked you if anyone had ever told you that God saves in His time and that you might have been outside His timing. God isn't going to give you an invitation until you are ready. That's why I also asked you if you knew what omnipresence meant as applied to God, another question you did not answer. Now I know that's two questions but it shouldn't take all that much effort to give me an answer to them. 

Do you have any fucking idea how many different variations I've heard about how your gawd "saves," all from people just as certain as you that their version is the absolute word of gawd truth? The same with omnipresence. Now, I know you're gonna want to argue that your absolute word of gawd truth is even truthier than their absolute word of gawd truth. Please, spare me. You have no evidence. You have no facts. You have no knowledge. You don't even have your gawd's words, but the words of men being passed off as the words of your gawd.

It's really very simple GC. I tried to get in communion with your gawd. It answered with nothing. Nada, nil, zilch, absolutely fuck-all. You want me to believe the timing wasn't right? I say bullshit. If your omniscient gawd wanted me, it would have known the timing would never be better. Still the answer was a complete and utter lack of answer, so quit trying to sell me. I'm not falling for the con.

God would not have left you hanging if He had called you. More than likely you were afraid of hell and wanted to avoid it and jumped the gun on God, either that or you were not listening. If you thought there was going to be this big exciting emotional thing going on... well it doesn't happen to everyone, I know because it wasn't part of my experience.
If you're over discussing this with me then I want try any more, you've been shown and now it's all up to you.

GC

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(August 25, 2017 at 12:48 am)vorlon13 Wrote:

Quote:Godscreated wrote:

The Holy Spirit speaks to everyone's soul to convict them of their sin, doesn't matter if people do/don't believe it. This is God calling to us to repent and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. I'm not familiar with much of the Mormon belief about the Holy Spirit, maybe you will share a bit of that with me.

GC

From wiki (as good as anything that attempts to explain Mormon befuddlement)

In orthodox Mormonism, the term God generally refers to the biblical God the Father, whom Mormons sometimes call Elohim, and the term Godhead refers to a council of three distinct divine persons consisting of God the Father, Jesus (his firstborn Son, whom Mormons sometimes call Jehovah), and the Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit). Mormons believe that the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost are three distinct beings, and that the Father and Jesus have perfected, glorified, physical bodies, while the Holy Ghost is a spirit without a physical body.[1] Mormons also believe that there are other gods and goddesses outside of the Godhead, such as a Heavenly Mother who is the wife of God the Father, and that faithful Mormons may attain godhood in the afterlife.[2]
This conception differs from the traditional Christian Trinity in several ways, one of which is that Mormonism has not adopted or continued the doctrine that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are of the same substance or being. Also, Mormonism teaches that the intelligence dwelling in each human is coeternal with God.[3] While Mormons use the term omnipotent to describe God, and regard him as the creator, they do not understand him as having absolutely unlimited power, and do not teach that he is the ex nihilo creator of all things.[4] The Mormon conception of God also differs substantially from the Jewish tradition of ethical monotheism in which elohim (אֱלֹהִים) is a completely different conception.
This description of God represents the Mormon orthodoxy, formalized in 1915 based on earlier teachings.

 Their belief came from a man of very objectionable character and they put the book of Mormon before the Bible, most only carry the Bible so they will be accepted by others, Christians and anyone else. 
The trinity is three persons in One, meaning that the three, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are of one completely like mind. God referred to Himself as we in the 3rd chapter of Genesis after the fall of Adam and Eve. 
God the Son is not just the first born, He has always been, Jesus himself made that statement. The first born refers to Jesus being born as a man. 
Of coarse the Mormons would say that God isn't omnipotent, for if they were to believe He was then they know they could never become gods themselves.

GC

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(September 15, 2017 at 12:05 am)Khemikal Wrote: I think that you mean to ask whether or not speciation has been observed, ofc.... it has been.  Here are nine examples, more than you requested, limited just to plants.  Enjoy.

Quote:

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5.1.1.1 Evening Primrose (Oenothera gigas)
While studying the genetics of the evening primrose, Oenothera lamarckiana, de Vries (1905) found an unusual variant among his plants. O. lamarckiana has a chromosome number of 2N = 14. The variant had a chromosome number of 2N = 28. He found that he was unable to breed this variant with O. lamarckiana. He named this new species O. gigas.
5.1.1.2 Kew Primrose (Primula kewensis)
Digby (1912) crossed the primrose species Primula verticillata and P. floribunda to produce a sterile hybrid. Polyploidization occurred in a few of these plants to produce fertile offspring. The new species was named P. kewensis. Newton and Pellew (1929) note that spontaneous hybrids of P. verticillata and P. floribunda set tetraploid seed on at least three occasions. These happened in 1905, 1923 and 1926.
5.1.1.3 Tragopogon
Owenby (1950) demonstrated that two species in this genus were produced by polyploidization from hybrids. He showed that Tragopogon miscellus found in a colony in Moscow, Idaho was produced by hybridization of T. dubius and T. pratensis. He also showed that T. mirus found in a colony near Pullman, Washington was produced by hybridization of T. dubius and T. porrifolius. Evidence from chloroplast DNA suggests that T. mirus has originated independently by hybridization in eastern Washington and western Idaho at least three times (Soltis and Soltis 1989). The same study also shows multiple origins for T. micellus.
5.1.1.4 Raphanobrassica
The Russian cytologist Karpchenko (1927, 1928) crossed the radish, Raphanus sativus, with the cabbage, Brassica oleracea. Despite the fact that the plants were in different genera, he got a sterile hybrid. Some unreduced gametes were formed in the hybrids. This allowed for the production of seed. Plants grown from the seeds were interfertile with each other. They were not interfertile with either parental species. Unfortunately the new plant (genus Raphanobrassica) had the foliage of a radish and the root of a cabbage.
5.1.1.5 Hemp Nettle (Galeopsis tetrahit)
A species of hemp nettle, Galeopsis tetrahit, was hypothesized to be the result of a natural hybridization of two other species, G. pubescens and G. speciosa (Muntzing 1932). The two species were crossed. The hybrids matched G. tetrahit in both visible features and chromosome morphology.
5.1.1.6 Madia citrigracilis
Along similar lines, Clausen et al. (1945) hypothesized that Madia citrigracilis was a hexaploid hybrid of M. gracilis and M. citriodora As evidence they noted that the species have gametic chromosome numbers of n = 24, 16 and 8 respectively. Crossing M. gracilis and M. citriodora resulted in a highly sterile triploid with n = 24. The chromosomes formed almost no bivalents during meiosis. Artificially doubling the chromosome number using colchecine produced a hexaploid hybrid which closely resembled M. citrigracilis and was fertile.
5.1.1.7 Brassica
Frandsen (1943, 1947) was able to do this same sort of recreation of species in the genus Brassica (cabbage, etc.). His experiments showed that B. carinata (n = 17) may be recreated by hybridizing B. nigra (n = 8) and B. oleracea, B. juncea (n = 18) may be recreated by hybridizing B. nigra and B. campestris (n = 10), and B. napus (n = 19) may be recreated by hybridizing B. oleracea and B. campestris.
5.1.1.8 Maidenhair Fern (Adiantum pedatum)
Rabe and Haufler (1992) found a naturally occurring diploid sporophyte of maidenhair fern which produced unreduced (2N) spores. These spores resulted from a failure of the paired chromosomes to dissociate during the first division of meiosis. The spores germinated normally and grew into diploid gametophytes. These did not appear to produce antheridia. Nonetheless, a subsequent generation of tetraploid sporophytes was produced. When grown in the lab, the tetraploid sporophytes appear to be less vigorous than the normal diploid sporophytes. The 4N individuals were found near Baldwin City, Kansas.
5.1.1.9 Woodsia Fern (Woodsia abbeae)
Woodsia abbeae was described as a hybrid of W. cathcariana and W. ilvensis (Butters 1941). Plants of this hybrid normally produce abortive sporangia containing inviable spores. In 1944 Butters found a W. abbeae plant near Grand Portage, Minn. that had one fertile frond (Butters and Tryon 1948). The apical portion of this frond had fertile sporangia. Spores from this frond germinated and grew into prothallia. About six months after germination sporophytes were produced. They survived for about one year. Based on cytological evidence, Butters and Tryon concluded that the frond that produced the viable spores had gone tetraploid. They made no statement as to whether the sporophytes grown produced viable spores..  

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http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html

The rest opf that page is a wealth of information that, as a committed creatard, you will not be familiar with...but everytime you huff and puff like you did above you make a liar of yourself, of christ, and you make a joke of your one true faith.

Gratz.

 None of that shows anything other than lost information, no plant became a totally different plant now did it.

GC

(September 25, 2017 at 12:30 am)Godscreated Wrote: None of that shows anything other than lost information, no plant became a totally different plant now did it.

GC