(October 25, 2017 at 1:42 pm)wallym Wrote:

(October 25, 2017 at 1:31 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: I don't understand America.
people who want progress, social justice and are intellectuals are the enemy.

So what is in vogue is stupid people, regression and oppression.

That cant be right surely?

They aren't intellectuals, which is why their strategies for pursuing progress and social justice aren't particularly popular or effective.

Hmm isn't there an anti intellectual movement in the US?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wir...wn-america

Quote:There has been a long tradition of anti-intellectualism in America, unlike most other Western countries. Richard Hofstadter, who won a Pulitzer Prize in 1964 for his book, Anti-Intellectualism In American Life, describes how the vast underlying foundations of anti-elite, anti-reason and anti-science have been infused into America’s political and social fabric. Famous science fiction writer Isaac Asimov once said: "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

(October 25, 2017 at 1:48 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:

(October 25, 2017 at 1:46 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: How do you feel about the khmer rouge progress?

My point is that all social progress/reform is mostly, but not necessarily, good.

Your last sentence suffers from terminal backpedaling.

Nope, just my perspective. I'm all for most social progress as long as it makes sense.

(October 25, 2017 at 1:46 pm)mh.brewer Wrote:

(October 24, 2017 at 8:53 pm)Shell B Wrote: That's kind of my point.

How do you feel about the khmer rouge progress?

My point is that all social progress/reform is mostly, but not necessarily, good.

That's kind of my point.

Shell B Wrote:It's weird that the term progressive is used here as a pejorative. Its base word is progress. Think about that for a second and realize what you are railing against.

I don't know how asking people to think about what progress they're actually protesting equates to saying progress is always good. You appear to be arguing that not all progress is good, but I never argued that it is.

(October 25, 2017 at 1:59 pm)Shell B Wrote:

(October 25, 2017 at 1:46 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: How do you feel about the khmer rouge progress?

My point is that all social progress/reform is mostly, but not necessarily, good.

That's kind of my point.

Shell B Wrote:It's weird that the term progressive is used here as a pejorative. Its base word is progress. Think about that for a second and realize what you are railing against.

I don't know how asking people to think about what progress they're actually protesting equates to saying progress is always good. You appear to be arguing that not all progress is good, but I never argued that it is.

Appears I misunderstood. Apologies.

Oh I think stasis and resting on our laurels is always the way to go - especially if it maintains the status quo at a moment when I am financially comfy. Progress for the general good must always take a back seat to my personal advantage.[/satire]

(October 25, 2017 at 1:38 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:

(October 25, 2017 at 1:31 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: I don't understand America.
people who want progress, social justice and are intellectuals are the enemy.

So what is in vogue is stupid people, regression and oppression.

That cant be right surely?

As noted above, the Right doesn't want change, they want retrograde movement back to the point they're comfortable with, somewhere about 1960, before Kennedy was elected President. Too many people becoming too equal for them to be at all happy with the current situation.

'The Right' isn't some homogeneous thing spontaneously growing among working class whites who want to see the clock rolled back. It's a highly coordinated, extremely well financed, hierarchical campaign of disinformation on the part of financial and corporate elites and aimed at the working class people the elites need in order to win and hold political power. The media and "ideas" infrastructure these people have put into place in the past forty-odd years is well documented and includes think tanks that provide "intellectual" cover to right-leaning lawmakers; well funded corporate studies that provide bogus 'scientific' findings to counter legitimate science (think climate change); a concentration of media outlets in the hands of an ever dwindling number of players; an army of public relations consultants whose sole purpose is to figure out how to reframe public discourse to serve the interests of the 1%; etc., etc.

The people behind this movement are not by any means stupid. They know exactly what they're doing. It's the marks, the people at the grassroots -- those working class "folks" -- who get roped in by the movement's rhetoric who are the fools. Time and again, they dutifully shuffle out to vote in ways that are demonstratively not in their interests. The genius of it all is that these same people not only don't realize they're being played, but they think they are exercising the highest, most principled reasoning when they parrot the same carefully crafted and paid-for talking points they've been fed. They do the bidding of people who wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire but who will happily pander to their inflated self-image (The Hard Working American People Who Know Better Than Those Elites), stroke their egos, inflame their sense of fear and insecurity, and validate their cultural resentments -- the better to keep them from thinking about what could be legitimate class resentments.

(October 25, 2017 at 12:45 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Ahh, yes...  Another fruitful political discussion here at AF.  Thanks, Neo.  How well did you think, "a few, therefore all of you," as an OP was going to go?  Would you consider sparking a feud with a broad brush to be intellectually honest on your part?  Are you even interested in actual discussion, or just name calling?  For someone who has so much to say on the subject of god and ontology, it seems your sole interest when it comes to politics is in dropping inflammatory OP's, and then jumping in only when you see an opportunity to insult someone.  

I don't ever see much in the way of participation on your end when it comes to the political threads you start, Neo.  In fact, if you posted more of them and more frequently, I would consider it spamming/trolling.  If I were to read two posts by you with your user name hidden; one about the existence of god, and the other about contemporary politics, I would assume they were authored by different forum members.  Why is that?

Well how profound are, the politics in the US. Around here yeah, there is political accusations. Most of them being oportunistic crooks, its a thing. But real, like state money management, taxes, not proper forest legislation, that ex prime minister accused of racketeering.

I think Christiano Ronaldo once flipped a birdie. Never saw a President of Portugal even say anything about that.

But hey. If how can this be a thing is beyond me.

I don't understand the sentiment of "keep the crazy coming, it only helps my side". In all honestly, I'd like both sides to lose their crazy extremist ends, and it gives me 0 pleasure to see people of any stripe behave badly. I get no pleasure, for instance, watching the current president lie, fail, and tween insane bullshit, even if it does give "my side" a better chance in the future because I, you know, care about other human beings, and don't enjoy seeing anyone fuck up other people's lives, or even just their own.

To each their own I guess.

(October 25, 2017 at 2:48 pm)Aroura Wrote: I don't understand the sentiment of "keep the crazy coming, it only helps my side". In all honestly, I'd like both sides to lose their crazy extremist ends, and it gives me 0 pleasure to see people of any stripe behave badly. I get no pleasure, for instance, watching the current president lie, fail, and tween insane bullshit, even if it does give "my side" a better chance in the future because I, you know, care about other human beings, and don't enjoy seeing anyone fuck up other people's lives, or even just their own.

To each their own I guess.

Well said.

(October 25, 2017 at 1:52 pm)mh.brewer Wrote:

(October 25, 2017 at 1:48 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Your last sentence suffers from terminal backpedaling.

Nope, just my perspective. I'm all for most social progress as long as it makes sense.

You say "all", then say "mostly".  Backpedaling.

---

(October 25, 2017 at 2:48 pm)Aroura Wrote: I don't understand the sentiment of "keep the crazy coming, it only helps my side".  In all honestly, I'd like both sides to lose their crazy extremist ends, and it gives me 0 pleasure to see people of any stripe behave badly. I get no pleasure, for instance, watching the current president lie, fail, and tween insane bullshit, even if it does give "my side" a better chance in the future because I, you know, care about other human beings, and don't enjoy seeing anyone fuck up other people's lives, or even just their own.

To each their own I guess.

Factor in that the OP is an idiot. The equation will balance then.