(January 12, 2018 at 12:37 pm)wallym Wrote: You've got it backwards. You should be villifying Norway for the immigration policy that they were employing for decades. It's basically the form of immigration that Trump is asking for. No poor brown folks was the rule of thumb until somewhat recently. Turns out, if you keep out all the poors, you have a bunch of extra money for your own citizens.

...and then there is California...highest poverty rate in the nation. But failure will never change the mind of a leftist.

(January 17, 2018 at 8:43 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(January 12, 2018 at 12:37 pm)wallym Wrote: You've got it backwards.  You should be villifying Norway for the immigration policy that they were employing for decades.  It's basically the form of immigration that Trump is asking for.  No poor brown folks was the rule of thumb until somewhat recently.   Turns out, if you keep out all the poors, you have a bunch of extra money for your own citizens.

...and then there is California...highest poverty rate in the nation. But failure will never change the mind of a leftist.

I don't understand how this can be true.  With all those wealthy multi millionaire celebrities, how can there be so much poverty.  If only the government would provide some way for the Celebrities to get their money into the hands of poor people.  Alas, since the government refuses to do this, those amazing people are forced to just buy a bunch of houses and cars and send their kids to private schools and build big gated communities to keep away the poors that might wander to far from their hovels, instead.

It's a tangent, but there's definitely a hypocrisy issue on the left.  Listening to Anderson Cooper go on about Haiti.  I heard he's sleeping in the smallest bedroom in his smallest vacation home out of solidarity.  Or Colbert complaining about CEO pay, when he makes 5 million a year, and some of the crew is likely making low 5 digits.  

One thing I always agreed with Jesus on is his rich guy and the eye of a needle bit.  Excessive wealth is immoral by almost all standards of morality.

(January 17, 2018 at 10:09 am)wallym Wrote:

(January 17, 2018 at 8:43 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: ...and then there is California...highest poverty rate in the nation. But failure will never change the mind of a leftist.

I don't understand how this can be true.  With all those wealthy multi millionaire celebrities, how can there be so much poverty.  If only the government would provide some way for the Celebrities to get their money into the hands of poor people.  Alas, since the government refuses to do this, those amazing people are forced to just buy a bunch of houses and cars and send their kids to private schools and build big gated communities to keep away the poors that might wander to far from their hovels, instead.

It's a tangent, but there's definitely a hypocrisy issue on the left.  Listening to Anderson Cooper go on about Haiti.  I heard he's sleeping in the smallest bedroom in his smallest vacation home out of solidarity.  Or Colbert complaining about CEO pay, when he makes 5 million a year, and some of the crew is likely making low 5 digits.  

One thing I always agreed with Jesus on is his rich guy and the eye of a needle bit.  Excessive wealth is immoral by almost all standards of morality.

I don't begrudge people enjoying their wealth or status. But I do agree that the sanctimonious pontificating from the affluent and celebrities and influential pundits has become annoying. It's just so much meaningless noise to me.

What does bother me is the inability of liberals to acknowledge that their policies are complete and utter failures. Chicago, where I live, is the poster child for gun crime despite tough gun laws. California now has more people living in poverty per capita than any other state in the union. That is where open borders, stifling regulation, and high taxes gets you. The analog isn't Norway, it's the failed states of Greece and Venezuela.

The leftists love Norway but structurally it is the exact opposite of the important policies advocated by the left in the USA. It is an ethnic mono-culture and stricter immigration policies than the USA. Obviously diversity and multiculturalism aren't responsible for its strength. It's wealth comes primarily from extracting non-renewable natural resources. "Norway’s major export products are gas and oil, which have an export value of more than NOK 312 billion, or 46 per cent of the country’s total exports in 2000." source: Norways State Data

Moreover the leftist accuses the Republicans of being fascists. Really? I don't know any any fascist government that ever advocated SMALLER government, LESS regulation, and LOWER taxes. It seems to me that Democratic policies, which are for bigger more intrusive government with more regulation and high punitive taxes is the more likely path for power hungry technocrats to pursue.

The R's aren't flirting with fascism because their upward transfer of wealth amounts to a profound tax upon the poor by eradicating services upon which they depend...while demanding more -from- them...upon whom we all depend.  It aint your silly ass tax fantasies or clever euphemisms that makes you facists, iow.  

Glad to clear that up for you.

Quote:Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete and they regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties.[12] Such a state is led by a strong leader—such as a dictator and a martial government composed of the members of the governing fascist party—to forge national unity and maintain a stable and orderly society.[12] Fascism rejects assertions that violence is automatically negative in nature and views political violence, war and imperialism as means that can achieve national rejuvenation.[13][14][15][16] Fascists advocate a mixed economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky through protectionist and interventionist economic policies.[17]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism


Tell me more magic hateball......!

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-as to this...

Quote:Obviously diversity and multiculturalism aren't responsible for its strength. It's wealth comes primarily from extracting non-renewable natural resources.

Yes...and since our strength does come from diversity and multiculturalism, and our wealth doesn't come primarily from extracting non renewable resources...nor do we have a nationalized oil apparatus.................. 

Heaven forfend..I think I'll need the smelling salts just for thinking about it.  

We make tractors and shit.  Machinery exports are our moneymakers (though financial services are our millionaire makers).  So maybe nationalize 50% of John Deere and Apple, institutue a sprawling set of citizen benefits...and then complain about the browns draining the system?  They still won't be, but it will be just that much more credible.

(January 17, 2018 at 11:44 am)Khemikal Wrote: The R's aren't flirting with fascism because their upward transfer of wealth amounts to a profound tax upon the poor by eradicating services upon which they depend...

And what Democratic policies in California have reduced the income disparity in that state? (crickets)

Lots of feel good rhetoric from you, Khem, but the facts and hard data are not on your side.

I'm not sure it would matter to me if the dems were jut as bad as the r's.  I didn't vote for anyone in california...... what is my side, for clarity?

(January 17, 2018 at 8:43 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: ...and then there is California...highest poverty rate in the nation. But failure will never change the mind of a leftist.

Neither will misinformation. California ranks 35th out of 56 (-includes territories-) with a household income poverty rate of  16.4%. If you want to find the real states with the highest poverty rates just start naming podunk, backwater red states like Arkansas (18.7%), Alabama (19.2%), and Mississippi (21.9%).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U....verty_rate

Edit: actually when you geographically adjust and factor in housing costs etc. California IS the worst. Who knew? Sorry, Chad. I was wrong on that. But still, even when you make such adjustments, the good ol' South is in a state of disrepair. Says little about "liberal policies")

Wingnut welfare states. Speaking of, how did Kansas fare under trickle down economics? Is it a randian fantasyland yet?

(January 17, 2018 at 12:21 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Edit: actually when you geographically adjust and factor in housing costs etc. California IS the worst. Who knew? Sorry, Chad. I was wrong on that. But still, even when you make such adjustments, the good ol' South is in a state of disrepair. Says little about "liberal policies")

I used to do something called Plan and Cost reviews for proposed housing developments. Basically, I was hired by banks to confirm that developers had accounted for and properly calculated construction costs and project phasing to maintain cash flow. These included properties in areas surrounding San Diego, La Jolla, and LA. California regulatory requirements included analysis of potential eagle nesting sites, archaeological impact, and oak tree preservation. Typical regulatory requirements like impact studies, phase I reports (for soil contaminants) and seismic analysis were significantly more expensive and difficult to navigate than other states. All these kinds of requirements greatly added to the cost of new construction and reduce the housing stock when compliance becomes nearly impossible, like in ring limits. You are right that housing costs are a factor; however, liberal policies are most certainly a factor in making housing costs more burdensome for people in the lower income brackets.

(January 17, 2018 at 12:21 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: If you want to find the real states with the highest poverty rates just start naming podunk, backwater red states like Arkansas (18.7%), Alabama (19.2%), and Mississippi (21.9%).

...perhaps because Democratic party imposed Jim Crow laws left a lasting impact.

(January 17, 2018 at 8:43 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(January 12, 2018 at 12:37 pm)wallym Wrote: You've got it backwards.  You should be villifying Norway for the immigration policy that they were employing for decades.  It's basically the form of immigration that Trump is asking for.  No poor brown folks was the rule of thumb until somewhat recently.   Turns out, if you keep out all the poors, you have a bunch of extra money for your own citizens.

...and then there is California...highest poverty rate in the nation. But failure will never change the mind of a leftist.

According to Wikipedia, that map takes into account cost-of-living factors such as differential housing costs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U....verty_rate

A neat tool here that shows housing costs by percentage of income in each state.