Quote:What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?

Ones that are completely irrelevant to their religion. I.e. 2+2=4 red is a color, humans are mammals, etc, etc.

A belief in their own ability to heal via a laying on of their hands, a belief in their ability to speak in tongues, and a belief they can drink any deadly thing and handle deadly serpents without harm.

Just like it says in the Bible.

That they acknowledge that it's only a belief and not necessarily the correct one, or correct at all.

Yeah simple humility goes a long way.

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Of course the certainty is what so many of them are most want to brag about.

I'm not quite sure how to define the term 'Christian' in a way that is consistent with 'reasonable' since the defining concept 'Nicene creed' seems to be inherently unreasonable.

So, what would I expect out of a reasonable *theist*?

I think one expectation is an admission that anything to do with the supernatural is an *additional* assumption on top of what has already been discovered through science. Also, that such assumptions should only allow ideas that are inherently untestable. This makes them 'independent' from what can be done through the sciences and thereby a *possible* axiom.

This, by the way, happens in mathematics: we know, after Godel, that any formal system we are interested in will have truths that cannot be proved. Such truths have to be *assumed* in addition to the other axioms. And, to some extent, the choice is arbitrary.

An admission that the assumption of 'God' is similar to the assumption of the axiom of choice would go a long way to establishing some sort of 'reasonableness' to the system.

(January 30, 2018 at 12:56 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: A belief in their own ability to heal via a laying on of their hands, a belief in their ability to speak in tongues, and a belief they can drink any deadly thing and handle deadly serpents without harm.

Just like it says in the Bible.

Eight hours later, he died


And there was much rejoicing.

This is the hurdle they have to get over.

Quote: Either Jesus rose from the dead or he didn't. If he did, then Christianity becomes plausible; if he did not, then it is sheer nonsense.

-- H. L. Mencken

It's a tough one to reach.

(January 30, 2018 at 9:33 pm)Minimalist Wrote: This is the hurdle they have to get over.

Quote: Either Jesus rose from the dead or he didn't. If he did, then Christianity becomes plausible; if he did not, then it is sheer nonsense.

-- H. L. Mencken

It's a tough one to reach.

Funny though how little attention most Christians pay to the such details.  They don't all read the bible much.  It is a small step from accepting that prayer is a one on one with Jesus (or the big guy) to thinking you can get the new and improved good news directly.    

Protestantism told people they could figure this stuff out without a pope.  Convince believers they have a direct line to god and they might decide they can also do without any scholars at all.

It seems to me that the most active long time theists on AF (including MK who isn't even Christian) satisfy the criteria as set forth by Whateverist.

(January 30, 2018 at 8:46 pm)Succubus Wrote:

(January 30, 2018 at 12:56 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: A belief in their own ability to heal via a laying on of their hands, a belief in their ability to speak in tongues, and a belief they can drink any deadly thing and handle deadly serpents without harm.

Just like it says in the Bible.

Eight hours later, he died


And there was much rejoicing.

I've lost three cousins to that snake shit. Sam Singleton lost his grandfather to snake bite, IIRC.