(May 21, 2018 at 11:17 am)Khemikal Wrote:

(May 21, 2018 at 11:11 am)Drich Wrote: If God were Evil He would demand nothing destroy your spirit and you remain in Hell forever.

Which is exactly what it's going to do to me, to hear you tell the tale...though I guess maybe it will make some ludicrous demand before carrying out the inevitable...because that makes it....less(?) evil. 

Thx for confirmation that you see your silly god as evil..I guess?  I know, I know, not a problem for you, god does what it wants and whatever it wants is, by default, the definition of righteousness, regardless of whatever that is.  

:  shrugs :

I;m legitimately getting a kick out of imagining an alternate universe in which I;m as powerless as you are, though.  You practically ooze the need for some sugar daddy to do what you can;t and make you feel better about your lot in life, always have.

Actually my Sugg is keeping well kept, and gives me things well beyond what I can even fathom to ask. He knows what makes me happy and keeps me swimming in those things.

That's said take "you and or me" out of the equation. then imagine a world where there is a difference between those who love God and those who do not.

Why would you or anyone else want to co mingle with the religious type you hate? or Let go to the extreme example where the religious types strap bombs to themselves and try to kill as many people like you as they can... why would you want to be stuck with someone like that for eternity?

(May 20, 2018 at 11:47 pm)Godscreated Wrote:

(May 20, 2018 at 6:53 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Of COURSE human beings bear the responsibility for human suffering - there is simply no one else to blame it on.

You are correct sir it is we who bear the responsibility, God gave us a moral spirit with which to help those who are in need. God has done His part know it is up to us to respond.

BSB4 Wrote:But if you live in a haze-filled Godism, it is incumbent upon you to determine why children get bone cancer, harlequin foetus syndrome, and 1000 other fatal or debilitating birth defects when God could simply have made those impossible.  Or - in the case of children dying from malnutrition or preventable diseases - it is YOUR job to explain why God couldn't at least ameliorate this by making people less greedy and more giving.

As has been explained to you a 1000 times sin and not just the original sin has brought these things upon man, God cursed the earth because of Adam and Eve's disobedience and the result is all the horrible things we encounter in life. God can not just take away what He knew had to be, that would not be just, a penalty must be paid for "our" rebellion.  God gave us a moral compass to act upon and if we ignore it then that's on us, as I said God has done His job and now it is our responsibility to act. You and all those who do not want to be blamed for the condition of this world will try and put the responsibility you have off on someone else, that isn't even close to being responsible for your own account. I see on here day after day how Christians are responsible for global warming and don't say the atheist here do not do that because a thousand responses could be pulled up to show differently. You sir as I and everyone else are responsible for global warming, those who smoke, those who cook, those who drive motor vehicles, burn a fire in a fire place or any of another 100 reasons all have a hand in this problem.  So everyone should quit blaming God and others and get off their lazy a.. and do something, or shut up.

BSB4 Wrote:In a universe with an all powerful, all knowing and all merciful God, EVERYTHING has to be laid at God's door, any other position is simply ludicrous nonsense.  In a universe without such a God (and ONLY in such a universe) we have only ourselves to blame.

Boru

Whose sin causes the sickness? The sin of the babies/young children or others?

Also if god is really all powerful, he has full control. Not only can he do whatever he wants, but he can predict all futures and get whatever result he wants. If you say there are rules he must follow that limit him, well, he's the one who made those rules. How does he pick when to intervene or not to intervene? From where I'm standing, there's no proof he ever has intervened.

(May 21, 2018 at 1:44 pm)Drich Wrote: That's said take "you and or me" out of the equation. then imagine a world where there is a difference between those who love God and those who do not.

Not difficult to imagine...theres certainly a difference between you and I, lol. 

Quote:Why would you or anyone else want to co mingle with the religious type you hate? or Let go to the extreme example where the religious types strap bombs to themselves and try to kill as many people like you as they can... why would you want to be stuck with someone like that for eternity?

I -don't- co-mingle with the religious types I hate.  You;re getting privileged treatment.

(May 21, 2018 at 9:25 am)Drich Wrote:

(May 19, 2018 at 7:37 pm)chimp3 Wrote: A few years ago a 7 year old girl was raped, strangled, and drowned in a creek. The suspect is in custody. 

If I had been on the scene, I woud have done everything in my power to stop this crime. I believe all of you would have. 

Every believer on this site, CL, GC, Drich, MK, Atlas, would have done what it takes to stop this crime.

Instead, what we are told by believers is that we have free will and the assailant will one day be accountable.

What this means is that if we were to act like god we should not intervene but observe the crime occuring then bear witness at his trial. 

I believe our morals are superior to the God of Moses/ Jesus/ Muhammed!

Here's the thing moron..

What if you knew the actions of the rape would play out far worse on the girl than a quick death would, would you then condemn the girl to a life time or torment or a death that welcomed here back to a loving Father?

Or what if she was to be inseminated and that lead to a monster child/anti Christ the would bring an end to this world?

Or even better yet what if she went unraped made some bad life decision and she became patient zero in a zombie apocalypse?

Or how about this... If not for rape Humanity would have been an extinct inbreed monkey race that never made it out of the trees.

Where your single dimensional thing fails you is that no matter what sin God would allow, you have no true perspective and think that 'terrible sin' (by your own single dimensional thinking the worst thing in the world. example. what if God eliminated everything by white lies.. then by your reason here with rape white lies would become as evil as rape to you and you would go on and on about how much better you are than God because you distain white lies.... You have no idea of the evil you are being shielded from and aside fro the destruction of your very soul through some heinous act nether do I.

But I do know there is a limit on the evil man can visit on each other. granted some of it is pretty bad in that we can have out bodies destroied by another, but again out souls remain in tact (untill judgement.)

Why would god be limited to death to solve those problems?

Especially the birth of the antiChrist. The morning after pill could take care of that.

Why can't god think of a better way to create homo sapiens than rape?

Is there something special about sexual coercion/violation?

God must simultaneously have the best/worst imagination.

---

What I'm getting at is an all powerful being, should have nearly limitless options.

Allowing the rape and murder of anybody should be completely unnecessary.

These are natural consequences of being all powerful.

Even if he's only nearly all powerful, its still not necessary.

(May 21, 2018 at 9:25 am)Drich Wrote:

(May 19, 2018 at 7:37 pm)chimp3 Wrote: A few years ago a 7 year old girl was raped, strangled, and drowned in a creek. The suspect is in custody. 

If I had been on the scene, I woud have done everything in my power to stop this crime. I believe all of you would have. 

Every believer on this site, CL, GC, Drich, MK, Atlas, would have done what it takes to stop this crime.

Instead, what we are told by believers is that we have free will and the assailant will one day be accountable.

What this means is that if we were to act like god we should not intervene but observe the crime occuring then bear witness at his trial. 

I believe our morals are superior to the God of Moses/ Jesus/ Muhammed!

Here's the thing moron..

What if you knew the actions of the rape would play out far worse on the girl than a quick death would, would you then condemn the girl to a life time or torment or a death that welcomed here back to a loving Father?

Or what if she was to be inseminated and that lead to a monster child/anti Christ the would bring an end to this world?

Or even better yet what if she went unraped made some bad life decision and she became patient zero in a zombie apocalypse?

Or how about this... If not for rape Humanity would have been an extinct inbreed monkey race that never made it out of the trees.

Where your single dimensional thing fails you is that no matter what sin God would allow, you have no true perspective and think that 'terrible sin' (by your own single dimensional thinking the worst thing in the world. example. what if God eliminated everything by white lies.. then by your reason here with rape white lies would become as evil as rape to you and you would go on and on about how much better you are than God because you distain white lies.... You have no idea of the evil you are being shielded from and aside fro the destruction of your very soul through some heinous act nether do I.

But I do know there is a limit on the evil man can visit on each other. granted some of it is pretty bad in that we can have out bodies destroied by another, but again out souls remain in tact (untill judgement.)

Twisted!

Your god is a cunt, dripshit.  Now I understand your attraction to it.

(May 21, 2018 at 2:05 pm)The Industrial Atheist Wrote:

(May 20, 2018 at 11:47 pm)Godscreated Wrote: You are correct sir it is we who bear the responsibility, God gave us a moral spirit with which to help those who are in need. God has done His part know it is up to us to respond.


As has been explained to you a 1000 times sin and not just the original sin has brought these things upon man, God cursed the earth because of Adam and Eve's disobedience and the result is all the horrible things we encounter in life. God can not just take away what He knew had to be, that would not be just, a penalty must be paid for "our" rebellion.  God gave us a moral compass to act upon and if we ignore it then that's on us, as I said God has done His job and now it is our responsibility to act. You and all those who do not want to be blamed for the condition of this world will try and put the responsibility you have off on someone else, that isn't even close to being responsible for your own account. I see on here day after day how Christians are responsible for global warming and don't say the atheist here do not do that because a thousand responses could be pulled up to show differently. You sir as I and everyone else are responsible for global warming, those who smoke, those who cook, those who drive motor vehicles, burn a fire in a fire place or any of another 100 reasons all have a hand in this problem.  So everyone should quit blaming God and others and get off their lazy a.. and do something, or shut up.

Whose sin causes the sickness? The sin of the babies/young children or others?

Also if god is really all powerful, he has full control. Not only can he do whatever he wants, but he can predict all futures and get whatever result he wants. If you say there are rules he must follow that limit him, well, he's the one who made those rules. How does he pick when to intervene or not to intervene? From where I'm standing, there's no proof he ever has intervened.

 Everyone's sin, sin in general, the world was curse because of sin and all these things that go wrong with our bodies is because of sin.

To answer the bold by me, God is all powerful but that doesn't mean He is required to use it, especially in the way you think He should. You say God can do whatever He wants as if He has the desire to do all things and you are wrong, God can't lie, cheat, steal or any other sin, He has no desire for sin, He hates sin. Also you speak as if the future has a multitude of possibilities, again you are wrong there is only one future no other will ever exist. God does have a plan that will result in what He knows to be true and that plan is as unchangeable as God is unchangeable. 
 God made no rules to limit himself, God has been, is and always will be who He is. God is absolute and complete as He is and never needed any rules for himself. God is limited by His nature if you can call it that. From God's perspective He isn't limited because He doesn't have any desire or reason to do certain things, He is who He is, someone we can always trust to be the same day after day.

God want intervene when it would go against His absolute will (plan). God may not intervene when something asked isn't against His absolute will. God acts in situations as He sees fit, when it will be a benefit to a person in the long run, then I could be wrong and He does it out of pure compassion, it's He omniscience that will determine those things and I have to accept that as does everyone, believer or not. 

Then you are standing in the wrong spot, Jesus said let those who have ears hear and those who have eyes see. You have to be on the right side of the tracks to view God's work. I'm watching my mother slowly passing on, she had been suffering for sometime and a little over a week ago I asked God to relieve her suffering if He wasn't going to heal her. Two days later that happened, she isn't suffering now and she soon will not be with us. Yes I dread that day because it will hurt tremendously, but I know and cherish the knowledge that she will be with our God.

GC

This is what I mean when I say it's absolutely absurd to say that God must have good reasons for not intervening. Because it's actually an admission that God is morally inferior to us as he doesn't even get the basics right.

Why doesn't God intervene to stop awful things? "Because reasons". Why can't he give us freedom to do what we wish with a few exceptions where he invervenes in cases to prevent such horrible things? "Because reasons". Why can't God allow us to do whatever we want but imbue us with a nature that never wants to rape and kill? "Because reasons." Why must God allow innocent animals and small children to suffer when they aren't even capable of responsibility or guilt, they're nothing but victims in all these cases? "Because reasons.". Why did God do such a poor job of creating moral beings in his supposedly moral image? "Because reasons."

There's no excuse at all. This God is supposedly able to do anything that is logically possible. God could intervene in less than a split second to prevent these things without causing any harm and destruction. God could have created us so we were better beings that never wished to do such things. If God is real he chooses to allow these things. The very second anyone thinks there's any possible justification that God can have for allowing these things to happen when he has the ability to stop them immediately with ease... is either just an admission that the theist in question has incredibly immoral beliefs or that they are egocentrically giving themselves to an immoral God out of fear of hell and hope for heaven.

Checkmate, theists.

---

(May 19, 2018 at 8:51 pm)Chad32 Wrote: But free will! When some sicko is ignoring a poor victim's free will by violating them, god can't infringe on their free will to save the victim. She just shouldn't wear revealing clothing. We all know the beach is crazy with people having sex all the time because of the vacationers not covering their entire bodies. That's why those places are the worst in the world, right?

God is a victim blamer and rape apologist. Not to mention a sadist.

---

(May 20, 2018 at 3:56 am)robvalue Wrote: I am better too.

Not only would I prevent rape, but if I was God, I wouldn't need to. I wouldn't have made rape possible in the first place.

Same.

If I was God I'd have made everyone born with constant happiness and ecstasy and pleasure, it would be eternal, it would go on forever, harm would be impossible, pain would be impossible—there would be no need for pain as there would be no need for a warning system of any kind as there would be nothing to be warned of as everything would be blissful—aging would be impossible and everyone would be completely invincible. And as for those who say "Wouldn't that get boring eventually?" I'd make boredom impossible.

And to those who wouldn't want to plug into an experience machine I'd try to explain to them that they think they wouldn't want to but they actually would—it is, after all, by definition, everything that they would want—and they are simply confused about what sort of experience it would actually entail.

(May 22, 2018 at 12:57 am)Godscreated Wrote:

(May 21, 2018 at 2:05 pm)The Industrial Atheist Wrote: Whose sin causes the sickness? The sin of the babies/young children or others?

Also if god is really all powerful, he has full control. Not only can he do whatever he wants, but he can predict all futures and get whatever result he wants. If you say there are rules he must follow that limit him, well, he's the one who made those rules. How does he pick when to intervene or not to intervene? From where I'm standing, there's no proof he ever has intervened.

 Everyone's sin, sin in general, the world was curse because of sin and all these things that go wrong with our bodies is because of sin.

To answer the bold by me, God is all powerful but that doesn't mean He is required to use it, especially in the way you think He should. You say God can do whatever He wants as if He has the desire to do all things and you are wrong, God can't lie, cheat, steal or any other sin, He has no desire for sin, He hates sin. Also you speak as if the future has a multitude of possibilities, again you are wrong there is only one future no other will ever exist. God does have a plan that will result in what He knows to be true and that plan is as unchangeable as God is unchangeable. 
 God made no rules to limit himself, God has been, is and always will be who He is. God is absolute and complete as He is and never needed any rules for himself. God is limited by His nature if you can call it that. From God's perspective He isn't limited because He doesn't have any desire or reason to do certain things, He is who He is, someone we can always trust to be the same day after day.

God want intervene when it would go against His absolute will (plan). God may not intervene when something asked isn't against His absolute will. God acts in situations as He sees fit, when it will be a benefit to a person in the long run, then I could be wrong and He does it out of pure compassion, it's He omniscience that will determine those things and I have to accept that as does everyone, believer or not. 

Then you are standing in the wrong spot, Jesus said let those who have ears hear and those who have eyes see. You have to be on the right side of the tracks to view God's work. I'm watching my mother slowly passing on, she had been suffering for sometime and a little over a week ago I asked God to relieve her suffering if He wasn't going to heal her. Two days later that happened, she isn't suffering now and she soon will not be with us. Yes I dread that day because it will hurt tremendously, but I know and cherish the knowledge that she will be with our God.

GC

Punishing people for the immorality of others is seriously messed up. I'm not suggesting god murder or cheat or steal, I'm saying there are all sorts of perfctly moral ways to prevent death and disease. In fact it's hard for me to come up with immoral ones. It just doesn't follow that the little baby's greadx5000 grandfather ate an apple, and now she/he dies of bone cancer. Or even has any difficulty whatsoever. While I wouldn't want this outcome, why doesn't god "punish" everyone equally? We're all descendants of Adam and Eve. If It's because some people had greatx100 grandfathers that were really terrible people, that's even more unjust punishment. I suppose to god terrible could mean worshipping a god that was the only one they were exposed to.

If you are saying there is only one future because god never changes his mind, that's at least consistent with Christian doctrine. But still this is necessarily the future god wants, if he is really all powerful. If it isn't he clearly isn't all powerful. It would be like if I say I can lift any weight I want, but really I'm only lifting 150 pounds at best, and I say it's because I'm mad at the manufacturers of CAP weight plates, when there are countless others that manufacture of barbells/dumbells and weight plates, even if the fact that I'm mad at them mattered at all. 

If god really has no choice, whatever the reason, that's a huge constraint on his power.

I am sorry about your mother. There are few things as hard as watching a loved one suffer this way.