(May 30, 2018 at 4:24 pm)emjay Wrote: The thing that would best put the swag question to rest with me is any theist answering the following hypothetical question:

Hypothetically, God decides that heaven will be no more. Instead, in the future, all believers will go to hell... but not as a punishment but rather as an extended... eternal... form of martyrdom. In this hypothetical, God accepts/judges his followers as worthy (ie in the old system they would have gone to heaven) but it is nonetheless his Will that they should endure hell forever in service to his will. And 'forever' is written in stone... God promises that there will be no reprieve, ever, no matter how much they may ask for it. If they accept the deal then, their only comforts are that they are deemed worthy by God and are doing his will. In life I'm sure there are many examples of this sort of mindset in play... of enduring adversity for the sake of doing God's will... not least with actual martyrs... but this hypothetical takes the question to the extreme; who, if anyone, loves God so much, and respects his will so much, that they would willingly suffer permanent suffering in service to that will? Who would do so, obediently and unquestioningly, accepting that God's will is God's will and man has no right to judge it, regardless of how fair or unfair it may seem?

(May 31, 2018 at 1:36 am)Godscreated Wrote:

(May 30, 2018 at 4:24 pm)emjay Wrote: The thing that would best put the swag question to rest with me is any theist answering the following hypothetical question:

Hypothetically, God decides that heaven will be no more. Instead, in the future, all believers will go to hell... but not as a punishment but rather as an extended... eternal... form of martyrdom. In this hypothetical, God accepts/judges his followers as worthy (ie in the old system they would have gone to heaven) but it is nonetheless his Will that they should endure hell forever in service to his will. And 'forever' is written in stone... God promises that there will be no reprieve, ever, no matter how much they may ask for it. If they accept the deal then, their only comforts are that they are deemed worthy by God and are doing his will. In life I'm sure there are many examples of this sort of mindset in play... of enduring adversity for the sake of doing God's will... not least with actual martyrs... but this hypothetical takes the question to the extreme; who, if anyone, loves God so much, and respects his will so much, that they would willingly suffer permanent suffering in service to that will? Who would do so, obediently and unquestioningly, accepting that God's will is God's will and man has no right to judge it, regardless of how fair or unfair it may seem?

 By now you should know I dislike hypothetical questions and that is the way I will answer this. Christians do sacrifice will here on earth, we also suffer the same as all other people. What we do not suffer nor do we sacrifice is the love of God and in that love we know that God can't and want change His mind about our eternal destination. God is unchanging and He always keeps His promises. Christians come to accept Christ because He has promised we would not suffer after this life, our eternal life would be completely perfect. You have asked a rediculous question that can't be answered by any Christian who seriously trusts in Jesus as their savior.

GC

(May 29, 2018 at 7:58 pm)chimp3 Wrote:

(May 29, 2018 at 7:45 pm)chimp3 Wrote: The best swag: Guilt free sinning (keeping it victimless) !

I read the OP wrong. I thought we were talking about atheists! Well, I am going to commit a victimless crime tonight just to atone for my mistake!

(May 31, 2018 at 5:29 am)emjay Wrote:

(May 31, 2018 at 1:36 am)Godscreated Wrote:  By now you should know I dislike hypothetical questions and that is the way I will answer this. Christians do sacrifice will here on earth, we also suffer the same as all other people. What we do not suffer nor do we sacrifice is the love of God and in that love we know that God can't and want change His mind about our eternal destination. God is unchanging and He always keeps His promises. Christians come to accept Christ because He has promised we would not suffer after this life, our eternal life would be completely perfect. You have asked a rediculous question that can't be answered by any Christian who seriously trusts in Jesus as their savior.

GC

I'm just trying to discover if there's any believer who worships their God unconditionally, that is, worships it for being God, rather than what it offers.