(July 13, 2018 at 5:26 pm)SteveII Wrote:

(July 13, 2018 at 4:09 pm)polymath257 Wrote: Well, the point is that the Divine Command Theory of morality is useless and, frankly, immoral.

So, your position is that if there is a God that created the universe, who is responsible for every concept that ever was and every person that ever lived, he is immoral--because your morality derived from your subjective experience and opinions during a timeframe that would not even appear as a blip in just the history of the universe says so. Color me surprised.

Well - there's no concrete proof that your god even exists so, really, your entire argument is moot. 

An individual should not be told they are going to hell or that they are sinners simply for who they fall in love with or are attracted to. The real problem is that homophobic white men decided a long time ago that something natural and beautiful, grossed them out and so they decided that it "must" be a bad thing because it didn't fit in with their narratives of what "normal" love should be. 

Fuck that noise. What other people decided to do behind closed doors is none of anyone else's business. Plain and simple. If you don't like gay marriage, don't have one. If you don't like gay sex, don't participate in it. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to be in a gay relationship. So if they aren't hurting christians, then christians need to mind their own fucking business.

(July 13, 2018 at 11:42 pm)Cecelia Wrote: So Jesus and his followers are psychopaths who like to kill people?

Wow.  Maybe we should be locking these people up or something?

  
  You need to go read my post, you will see that the atheist put words in Franklin's mouth that He never spoke. As for the rest of the atheist I have shown the writer of the article created a blatant lie and that Kit passed it own as truth when it was obviously not. If this ol' boy can see what's going on in the article and Kit's post then why have all the so called brilliant atheist missing it. I'll tell you why, hatred of the Christian faith, some kinda' reason, hates an awful thing to possess and one hard to let go of after carrying it for a while.
 
 GC

(July 14, 2018 at 12:32 am)Fireball Wrote: As to the OP, it's sad to see such a steaming heap of religious hypocrisy can continue to exist. Just goes to show what a metric shit ton of gullible people are capable of swallowing. Wasn't it Billy Graham who was crying like a baby when being caught out for adultery, after excoriating Jim Bakker for the same thing? Yes. Yes, it was. "I have sinned against you..." All you religious people will line up and forgive these people in a heartbeat. You religious people ought to be more christlike, and scourge them out of your money temple. Hypocrisy writ extremely large. I'm not an angry atheist. I'm just one who looks at this kind of lunacy and shakes his head at how wrong-headed people can be when they embrace that insanity. You poets can sort through the meter, BTW.

This seems a little confused to me. What is the hypocracy in the OP? What are you trying to say here, that unless you are perfect, and Connor say that anything is wrong? I would agree, that a pastor caught in adultery should not be leading a congregation. And I don’t condone adultery no matter who does it.

Also just a note: Jim Bakker went to Billy Graham’s funeral. He spoke very well of him.

https://www.christianpost.com/news/billy...er-219899/

[quote]
"Billy Graham came into my prison when I was there. He wrapped his arms around me when I was a mess. I was cleaning toilets at that moment and I was at a very low moment in my life," Bakker said. "Billy Graham walked in and threw his arms around me and said, 'Jim, I love you.'"

Graham's wife, Ruth, who died in 2007, even invited him to their home in North Carolina after he was released from prison.
[\quote]

You may also note the Graham rule that people where giving Pence flak about recently for following.

I am reminded of the following quote by Saint Augustine. "Never judge a philosophy by its abuse."

Quote:Never judge a philosophy by its abuse

That's a bullshit quote from a bullshitter philosophies have to be judged that way otherwise your simply ignoring the piratical implications of said philosophy. If your ideology/movement is attracting a substantial number pedophiles and rapists maybe you ought to ask why?

(July 14, 2018 at 2:05 am)Tizheruk Wrote:

Quote:Never judge a philosophy by its abuse

That's a bullshit quote from a bullshitter philosophies have to be judged that way otherwise your divorcing them from their impact on the real world .

A poor execution doesn’t mean that the plan was flawed. It’s not saying that you cannot judge those who are abusing the philosophy, but that the abuse doesn’t reflect on the philosophy itself.

Quote:A poor execution doesn’t mean that the plan was flawed.

It can if the plan attracts unsavory people who cause it to fail  

Quote: It’s not saying that you cannot judge those who are abusing the philosophy, but that the abuse doesn’t reflect on the philosophy itself.

Yes it does it as you must ask why your philosophy is so ripe for abuse and why it attracts abusers in the first place

(July 14, 2018 at 2:21 am)Tizheruk Wrote:

Quote:A poor execution doesn’t mean that the plan was flawed.

It can if the plan attracts unsavory people who cause it to fail  

Quote: It’s not saying that you cannot judge those who are abusing the philosophy, but that the abuse doesn’t reflect on the philosophy itself.

Yes it does it as you must ask why your philosophy is so ripe for a abuse and why it attracts abusers in the first place

Sorry, I don’t agree, and it doesn’t follow. If you would like, though I can condemn atheism by its worst adherents. Call it a compromise.

Quote:Sorry, I don’t agree, and it doesn’t follow.

Of course don't because it would mean admitting i'm right and yes it totally follows but again you would have to admit i'm right .

(July 14, 2018 at 2:26 am)Tizheruk Wrote:

Quote:Sorry, I don’t agree, and it doesn’t follow.

Of course don't because it would mean admitting i'm right and yes it totally follows but again you would have to admit i'm right .

Nope that’s not it.

(July 14, 2018 at 2:21 am)Tizheruk Wrote:

Quote:A poor execution doesn’t mean that the plan was flawed.

It can if the plan attracts unsavory people who cause it to fail  

Quote: It’s not saying that you cannot judge those who are abusing the philosophy, but that the abuse doesn’t reflect on the philosophy itself.

Yes it does it as you must ask why your philosophy is so ripe for abuse and why it attracts abusers in the first place

If I might contribute my $0.02 CDN, a part of the problem comes from a sense of exclusivity, an "us versus them" mentality.  Whenever a group sees non-members as a problem to be solved, the group concentrates its resources to try to achieve that goal.  This creates a nexus of power that could be used beneficially, but all too often someone is attracted to the power and then proceeds to abuse it.  This can happen in any group, any philosophy, but IMO a sense of mission and urgency makes it easier to exploit and misdirect the group.