(August 6, 2018 at 11:12 pm)Brian37 Wrote: The smell of sock puppet is strong on this one.

(August 6, 2018 at 11:26 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(August 6, 2018 at 11:08 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Hugs,

Nobody is saying this guy didn't experience something. But the experience itself proves nothing about the existence of an afterlife.

It's proof enough to him.

Truth is a personal fact that cannot always be demonstrated.

Plenty of people that experience NDE have no question that their experience was real.

How many people do you know that claim their dreams are real?

(August 7, 2018 at 8:28 am)LastPoet Wrote:

(August 6, 2018 at 11:12 pm)Brian37 Wrote: The smell of sock puppet is strong on this one.

Indeed.

(August 6, 2018 at 11:34 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(August 6, 2018 at 11:26 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: It's proof enough to him.

Truth is a personal fact that cannot always be demonstrated.

Plenty of people that experience NDE have no question that their experience was real.

How many people do you know that claim their dreams are real?

That’s just it, though.

Many theists claim to have had “personal experiences” and want the rest of us to accept that as proof.

Personal experiences are only truly “proof” to those who “experienced” them.

Once while working A&E I had a patient brought in who was adamant he was being chased by a small man with big teeth and red skin.

That was proof to him.  The fact that he was higher than a kite at the time didn’t matter.  Should I have believed him just because he was so certain and wanted me to believe?

(August 7, 2018 at 1:29 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Every single example people have submitted had to do with drugs, this isn't even remotely the same thing.

There are cases of NDE where the brain wasn't functional; A non-functional brain does not hallucinate.

People usually don't maintain that a drug induced hallucination was a real experience, the exception being N,N-Dimethyltryptamine (a natural substance found in plants, animals, and the human body) in which people feel their experience was real, in fact DMT tends to have a similar life changing effect as NDE's

(August 7, 2018 at 1:42 pm)mh.brewer Wrote:

(August 7, 2018 at 1:29 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Every single example people have submitted had to do with drugs, this isn't even remotely the same thing.

There are cases of NDE where the brain wasn't functional; A non-functional brain does not hallucinate.

People usually don't maintain that a drug induced hallucination was a real experience, the exception being N,N-Dimethyltryptamine (a natural substance found in plants, animals, and the human body) in which people feel their experience was real, in fact DMT tends to have a similar life changing effect as NDE's

Can you define "functional"? Is that registering in EEG? Do you have personal experience with this?

Quote:Pam Reynolds Lowery (1956 – May 22, 2010), from Atlanta, Georgia, was an American singer-songwriter. In 1991, at the age of 35, she stated that she had a near-death experience (NDE) during a brain operation performed by Robert F. Spetzler at the Barrow Neurological Institute in Phoenix, Arizona. Her experience is one of the most widely documented in near-death studies because of the circumstances under which it happened. Reynolds was under close medical monitoring during the entire operation. During part of the operation she had no brain-wave activity and no blood flowing in her brain, which rendered her clinically dead. She claimed to have made several observations during the procedure which later medical personnel reported to be accurate.

(August 7, 2018 at 1:49 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(August 7, 2018 at 1:42 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Can you define "functional"? Is that registering in EEG? Do you have personal experience with this?

How about I give you an example of 'non-functional'...

Quote:Woerlee, an anesthesiologist with many years of clinical experience, has considered this case in detail and remains unconvinced of the need for a paranormal explanation... [He] draws attention to the fact that Reynolds could only give a report of her experience some time after she recovered from the anesthetic as she was still intubated when she regained consciousness. This would provide some opportunity for her to associate and elaborate upon the sensations she had experienced during the operation with her existing knowledge and expectations. The fact that she described the small pneumatic saw used in the operation also does not impress Woerlee. As he points out, the saw sounds like and, to some extent, looks like the pneumatic drills used by dentists.[2]

(August 7, 2018 at 2:15 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(August 7, 2018 at 1:49 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: How about I give you an example of 'non-functional'...

You have.  Many....many times. 

For example..presenting that link, and it's horribly disappointing terminus.

Quote:Woerlee, an anesthesiologist with many years of clinical experience, has considered this case in detail and remains unconvinced of the need for a paranormal explanation... [He] draws attention to the fact that Reynolds could only give a report of her experience some time after she recovered from the anesthetic as she was still intubated when she regained consciousness. This would provide some opportunity for her to associate and elaborate upon the sensations she had experienced during the operation with her existing knowledge and expectations. The fact that she described the small pneumatic saw used in the operation also does not impress Woerlee. As he points out, the saw sounds like and, to some extent, looks like the pneumatic drills used by dentists.[2]