(August 15, 2018 at 8:39 pm)bennyboy Wrote: I've already confessed to being a fuckface asshole, by virtue of being a male human.  I'm certainly not a cool dude, or anything like one.

You certainly aren't an asshole by virtue of being a male human..if you're an asshole.  That's your anxiety..again, an ideological axe to grind which has been supercharged by people like Peterson.  Not a factual statement on the nature of reality.  I still think you're cool, anyway.  

If you really are  dick..it isn't because you have a dick.   Your dickishness would be on you, not your penis.  

Quote:Feelings are mediators of behavior.  I'm pretty much saying in this thread that I'm no longer motivated to act on the ideas of identity politics (Peterson's word, but I think it's apt enough), because doing so is not beneficial for me.  I've tried hiring minorities preferentially, and had to deal with all that shit I mentioned; now, I will no longer hire minorities preferentially.  I've tried showing understanding, and been told (repeatedly in no uncertain terms) that I'm not worthy of that same understanding because of my identity as a White Man™.

-That- person sounds like a dick, to me.  

Quote:One of the essential tenets of a contract is that there must be something in it for both parties, and both parties must be willing participants.  Well, the particular flavor of social contract which is currently presented is highly disadvantageous for me.  If I act to support minorities, there needs to be some currency in return-- a simple recognition that I'm trying to be a good human being would probably be sufficient.  Instead, despite (slightly illegally, probably) specifically choosing minority employees over a couple of years, I ended up dealing with unending grief, complaints, and downright accusations.

Virtue signalling and trading..but I'm the leftist radical...lol?

Quote:My feelings can be discarded, but at this cost: if I feel that I'm giving too much (I do) and receiving to little (I do) in a given relationship, then I'm going to tear up that social contract, and draw my net of consideration only to those who I feel give real value to my life.  That means that I will do what's best for me, for my family, for my friends.

Your feelings can be acknowledged as -your feelings- and still be deeply malinformed.

Quote:Here's a summary of the left position as it appears to me: "Fuck you, asshole.  Support us!  Treat us well because you SHOULD, because we've dealt with assholes like you all our lives.  But don't you dare expect to be treated civilly yourself, because YOU are one of THEM, and that in itself makes you a piece of shit.  And furthermore, not only do you have to verbally agree that you're a piece of shit because of who you were born, you'd better fucking BELIEVE it too.  And THAT is why you should adopt our world view and act on it."

Allow me to suggest that this is your anxiety speaking..again., and not in any way the message of the left.

Quote:Not particularly compelling.  My current position on this is: I'm going to live my life and try to better it, and foster relationships which I believe will improve my enjoyment of it.  I will avoid crazy fucks when I can, and beat them down if I have to.  I will try to better my family's position, and support my friends in doing the same.  As for everyone else: I will treat you as well as I can until I decide if you're a friend or a crazy fuck.  And in the likely case that I decide it's the latter, I reserve the right not to give a shit about anything you say, do, or want.

Not compelling at all..but then, you are clearly compelled by it regardless of whether or not it's the message of the left or the voice of the lesser hobgoblins of your mind (don't take this personally..you don't even want to know about the fucking spiders in my head - we all have them in some way or form) encouraged by people like Peterson to imagine boogeymen where there are none.

Over and above all of that though...let's say that the current political climate is hurting your feelings, somehow. So? You having your feelings hurt isn't exactly the same sort or scale of problem as institutional or professional bigotry. You're crying and the other guy is bleeding out.

(August 15, 2018 at 8:32 pm)Tizheruk Wrote:

Quote:So my insecurities cause people to take sick days off and not bring a sick note as per the terms of the contract?  My insecurities cause a teacher to get tilted because other teachers had left books on her desk?  My insecurities made a teacher lie in the health disclosure form required by Korean law?

I'm not projecting onto these situations, though Tiz can certainly choose to  believe I'm lying or embellishing if he wants to.  My insecurities are FROM these kinds of interactions-- because no matter how well I teach, no matter how hard I work or how fairly I try to run my business, I'm always one or two unlucky hiring decisions away from watching it all get shit on because someone thinks they aren't getting enough personal attention.

Like Khem said  insecurities

I still don't understand why this argument is being made.  Is it that because I'm insecure, I'm acting out in a bigoted way?  That I'm projecting my own moral or psychological weaknesses onto others?

If so, fair enough.  That's what all people do in varying ways and degrees.  But in the end, it doesn't matter.  I DO have feelings about life and about people.  And if people want me to endorse, support, or even care about them, I'm going to have either to WANT to do that, or be FORCED to do that.

I will want to do that if I get enough positive reinforcement from my efforts to do so.  I will be forced to do it if through legislation, a government of the people carries sufficient threat to my wellbeing that it's worth it.

Right now, it's apparent that there's so much hostility that the former is never going to happen.  I do not like people like you, or your ideas, and there's not enough positive reinforcement (even in the form of intellectual interest) in interacting with you to be anything but unpleasant.  I have no interest in supporting you in any endeavor at this point.  I wouldn't hold a sign in your rally, I wouldn't sign a petition on behalf of you.  You've been so consistently hostile that I probably wouldn't risk getting my new sneakers wet to save you from drowning in a mud puddle.  To be frank, I feel that way about a lot of people, probably because evolution has arrived at me being almost perfectly adapted to fuckface assholery, and I'm 100% sure that you feel the same way about me.

As for being forced-- well, time will tell.  I think it's perfectly possible that all sorts of thought crimes will be legislated, and that you won't be able to say 10 words without some fucker jumping out of the woodwork pointing a finger.  It's also possible that I'll tell someone what I really think about them, and I'll get sued and made to apologize.  But for the most part, if I don't feel I want to participate in a culture I think is both needy and psychotic, I don't have to.

So a collection cynicism and paranoia goody 

And FYI i would not let drown in a mud puddle .That's just not right 

(August 15, 2018 at 8:52 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Virtue signalling and trading..but I'm the leftist radical...lol?

It's not "virtue signalling."  I'm saying explicitly that I've made a conscious effort to act virtuously, and I've found it more disadvantageous than advantageous.

Quote:Your feelings can be acknowledged as -your feelings- and still be deeply malinformed.  

What's a "malinformed feeling"?

My feelings represent my emotional reactions to my environment.  They are motivators, and will explain many of my behaviors (if you believe in free will) and ALL of them if you do not.  Blaming me for having the "wrong" feelings about things might make your farts smell better to you, but they are unlikely to lead me to align my behaviors with those who cause them.

Quote:Allow me to suggest that this is your anxiety speaking..again., and not in any way the message of the left.

Obviously, this is the condensed version, but your own comments in this very thread fit the spirit of that statement quite well. And in my experience, while I respect you more than most who make similar arguments, I'd say your arguments are pretty representative of that political cross-section.

Quote:

Quote:Not particularly compelling.  My current position on this is: I'm going to live my life and try to better it, and foster relationships which I believe will improve my enjoyment of it.  I will avoid crazy fucks when I can, and beat them down if I have to.  I will try to better my family's position, and support my friends in doing the same.  As for everyone else: I will treat you as well as I can until I decide if you're a friend or a crazy fuck.  And in the likely case that I decide it's the latter, I reserve the right not to give a shit about anything you say, do, or want.

Not compelling at all..but then, you are clearly compelled by it regardless of whether or not it's the message of the left or the voice of the lesser hobgoblins of your mind (don't take this personally..you don't even want to know about the fucking spiders in my head - we all have them in some way or form) encouraged by people like Peterson to imagine boogeymen where there are none.

Over and above all of that though...let;s say that the current political climate is hurting your feelings, somehow.  So?  You having your feelings hurt isn't exactly the same sort or scale of problem as institutional or professional bigotry.

Well, let's take Tizheruk's issue with dream catchers as an example of me trying to participate in the identity politics.  I made the argument that cultural appropriation of natives was relevant, precisely because certain traditions hold value to people with a certain identity.  One of our members (I think I remember but I don't want to say the name in case I got it wrong) told him in no uncertain terms to go fuck himself, and I felt that such an off-hand dismissal was unnecessarily insensitive. I even suggested (to my current disappointment with myself) that the person involved was an entitled white oppressor, and should more seriously consider the plight of poor Tiz and his downtrodden people.

So, Tiz and I are best buds now, right?  He deeply appreciated my willingness to go to bat for him, to support him, and to stand up to several pages of verbal lashings on his behalf, right?

Nope.  Tiz is so busy thinking about himself, about what he believes and demands that everyone else must believe, he's so busy smelling his own farts, that he can't remember any of that, or at least doesn't care about it because it doesn't provide an immediate benefit to his current tirade.

That's fine.  Tiz is not under any particular compulsion to like me, and part of the nature of forums is that people often end up disliking those who express ideas contrary to their own.

But from my perspective, there's a clear lesson there: there's no benefit for me in standing up for anyone else.  Nobody's going to praise me for trying to be virtuous-- they are going to say I'm "virtue signalling," and use any good I've attempted to do as yet another way to put me in a box and to discard my opinions. Hire all black staff in a country where black people are almost ALWAYS rejected with prejudice? Oh. . . you're just doing it out of guilt/pride/anxiety. It's literally a climate in which I feel NO MATTER WHAT I DO, there cannot be any positive outcome for me.

But I have every right just to walk away from it all. "I don't give a shit anymore" is a perfectly rational position from someone who's tried, and not felt sufficiently rewarded for the effort.

(August 15, 2018 at 9:16 pm)bennyboy Wrote: It's not "virtue signalling."  I'm saying explicitly that I've made a conscious effort to act virtuously, and I've found it more disadvantageous than advantageous.

That your intentional attempt to virtue signal and trade on virtue has failed..in your estimation...doesn't mean that you didn't engage in a virtue signaling and trading campaign.

I'll note..here...that I think you're a solid guy...so you may have secured profit that you're unaware of..but I'll also note that I've never done anything of the sort.  I've never tried, I never would try, it irks me to even imagine doing it.  I can understand your frustration, but at the same time I don't know why you would need to do that.  I never did..and I'm not being white male genocided like you fear you will be.  I do what I do and the chips fall. If I;m a shitty poerson I expect shitty consequences. I accept it, even. I don't complain about the unfairness of it all.

I feel untouchable.  You feel afraid.  What explains that disparity?

Quote:What's a "malinformed feeling"?

My feelings represent my emotional reactions to my environment.  They are motivators, and will explain many of my behaviors (if you believe in free will) and ALL of them if you do not.  Blaming me for having the "wrong" feelings about things might make your farts smell better to you, but they are unlikely to lead me to align my behaviors with those who cause them.

Just to knock it out.  A malinformed feeling is one that is legitimate -as a feeling-....but doesn't accurately express the situation that you're really in.  A pretty girl who feels ugly.  A skinny girl who thinks she's fat.  A nice guy who's worried he's an asshole.  You think that you're being victimized or are at uimmanent risk of victimization./  It's not even remotely likely that this is true..no matter how strongly and legitimately you feel this way.  

Quote:Obviously, this is the condensed version, but your own comments in this very thread fit the spirit of that statement quite well.  And in my experience, while I respect you more than most who make similar arguments, I'd say your arguments are pretty representative of that political cross-section.

Really..when I tell you to toughen up and improve yourself..I'm reinforcing your notions of being victimized by the left for having a penis and pale skin?  Why don't you feel that way when right wing asshats say the same things to others....?

Quote:Well, let's take Tizheruk's issue with dream catchers as an example of me trying to participate in the identity politics.  I made the argument that cultural appropriation of natives was relevant, precisely because certain traditions hold value to people with a certain identity.  One of our members (I think I remember but I don't want to say the name in case I got it wrong) told him in no uncertain terms to go fuck himself, and I felt that such an off-hand dismissal was unnecessarily insensitive.  I even suggested (to my current disappointment with myself) that the person involved was an entitled white oppressor, and should more seriously consider the plight of poor Tiz and his downtrodden people.

So, Tiz and I are best buds now, right?  He deeply appreciated my willingness to go to bat for him, to support him, and to stand up to several pages of verbal lashings on his behalf, right?

Nope.  Tiz is so busy thinking about himself, about what he believes and demands that everyone else must believe, he's so busy smelling his own farts, that he can't remember any of that.

That's fine.  Tiz is not under any particular compulsion to like me, and part of the nature of forums is that people often end up disliking those who express ideas contrary to their own.

But from my perspective, there's a clear lesson there: there's no benefit for me in standing up for anyone else.  Nobody's going to praise me for trying to be virtuous-- they are going to say I'm "virtue signalling," and use any good I've attempted to do as yet another way to put me in a box and to discard my opinions.  Hire all black staff in a country where black people are almost ALWAYS rejected with prejudice?  Oh. . . you're just doing it out of guilt/pride/anxiety.  It's literally a climate in which I feel NO MATTER WHAT I DO, there cannot be any positive outcome for me.

But I have every right just to walk away from it all.  "I don't give a shit anymore" is a perfectly rational position from someone who's tried, and not felt sufficiently rewarded for the effort.

Well, Tiz and I diverge on that issue.  Even so..just because Tiz doesn't shower you with praise for that thing doesn't mean that there's no benefit in standing up for other...and even that may be a subtle misunderstanding of the situation.  Even though we diverge, Tiz has doubts about you..but not me. Often, when we stand up for "others" we are standing up for ourselves.  Personally, my whole identity as regards virtue surrounds standing up for others in the right things even if it actively harms me.  Because I'm a leftist?  No.  Because I'm a patriot and in many ways hyper masculine.  People don't give me shit for it.  Far from being criticized for my penis thoughts........I'm rewarded.  Monetarily, once upon a time, and now socially.  To be brutally honest, I can cudgel people over the head with the fact that I will bleed for strangers when they wont so much as endure a sleepless night for their closest of kin.

Tell me how that fits with the narrative of white male anxiety? Explain to me how I can do what my dick tells me and profit..while others imagine that doing what their dick tells them leads to ruin? Explain to me why this is somehow a left/right issue?

Quote:Well, let's take Tizheruk's issue with dream catchers as an example of me trying to participate in the identity politics.  I made the argument that cultural appropriation of natives was relevant, precisely because certain traditions hold value to people with a certain identity.  One of our members (I think I remember but I don't want to say the name in case I got it wrong) told him in no uncertain terms to go fuck himself, and I felt that such an off-hand dismissal was unnecessarily insensitive. I even suggested (to my current disappointment with myself) that the person involved was an entitled white oppressor, and should more seriously consider the plight of poor Tiz and his downtrodden people.

1. It  was Jess and Shelly B

2. I never asked for your help (but still appreciate  it)

3. Jess and Shell were actually right all along i took things too far and i say that with great pain 

Quote:So, Tiz and I are best buds now, right?  He deeply appreciated my willingness to go to bat for him, to support him, and to stand up to several pages of verbal lashings on his behalf, right?

Nope we are not friends  but i do still  appreciate it . I may not like you and most of what you think but still appreciate  that one act .

Quote:Nope.  Tiz is so busy thinking about himself, about what he believes and demands that everyone else must believe, he's so busy smelling his own farts, that he can't remember any of that.

I remember it well with some admitted embarrassment and sadness that i ruined a friendship with Jess over it .But that does mean i don't appreciate  that one act .But were not friends .

Quote:That's fine.  Tiz is not under any particular compulsion to like me, and part of the nature of forums is that people often end up disliking those who express ideas contrary to their own.

I don't but that's aside the fact of what you did .

Quote:But from my perspective, there's a clear lesson there: there's no benefit for me in standing up for anyone else.  Nobody's going to praise me for trying to be virtuous-- they are going to say I'm "virtue signalling," and use any good I've attempted to do as yet another way to put me in a box and to discard my opinions. Hire all black staff in a country where black people are almost ALWAYS rejected with prejudice? Oh. . . you're just doing it out of guilt/pride/anxiety. It's literally a climate in which I feel NO MATTER WHAT I DO, there cannot be any positive outcome for me.

I never uttered a single word like that and i still don't now regardless of my dislike of you .

Quote:But I have every right just to walk away from it all. "I don't give a shit anymore" is a perfectly rational position from someone who's tried, and not felt sufficiently rewarded for the effort.

It really isn't

---

One particular Comment by Benny stands out to me and always have

Quote:So if you are "native enough" by your genetics, that means that you get to disregard Tizheruk's feelings about his culture, and the icons which represent it? If you are, in fact, native, then you would not be guilty of cultural appropriation, by any definition, for using a symbol associated with your own heritage. So what are you even talking about? If you had come into the thread and said, "I'm native, but I don't think it's a problem if white people own a dream catcher just because they like it," then your view would have been relevant to the discussion I was having with Tizheruk at that time.

(August 15, 2018 at 9:44 pm)Khemikal Wrote: I feel untouchable.  You feel afraid.  What explains that disparity?

Mainly Korean immigration laws.  It takes up to 6 weeks to process a new employee, and a lot of harm can come when classes are without a teacher for that length of time (obviously).  But the insecurity isn't so much about dealing with the people-- I've learned my lesson, and I will kick a fucker to the curb if they aren't going to do the job, as outlined in the contract and as I direct them to do it.  The insecurity is about the timing of my goals-- getting a fuckhead employee is a fairly random event, and is pretty hard to filter out in the interview process.  This means that the success of my business, and indirectly of my plans for my children's transition to Canada and so on, are partly RNG.  And nobody fucking likes RNG.

Imaging you're playing LOL, and there's a random debuff that lets the enemy team kill you, and this causes you to lose 10% of games.  That, in a practical sense, is about what leftist identity politics means to me when I say I'm anxious or insecure.

Quote:

Quote:What's a "malinformed feeling"?

My feelings represent my emotional reactions to my environment.  They are motivators, and will explain many of my behaviors (if you believe in free will) and ALL of them if you do not.  Blaming me for having the "wrong" feelings about things might make your farts smell better to you, but they are unlikely to lead me to align my behaviors with those who cause them.

Just to knock it out.  A malinformed feeling is one that is legitimate -as a feeling-....but doesn't accurately express the situation that you're really in.  A pretty girl who feels ugly.  A skinny girl who thinks she's fat.  A nice guy who's worried he's an asshole.  You think that you're being victimized or are at uimmanent risk of victimization./  It's not even remotely likely that this is true..no matter how strongly and legitimately you feel this way.  

I'm not claiming to be a victim.  Being insecure and blaming political positions isn't (at least to me) victimization.  It's victimization if I roll over and let them do it to me.  Ultimately, my position is that their political stance cannot possibly succeed in the long run, because people like me are going to wake up one day and say-- "Nah.  Avoiding or compromising with these fuckers just emboldens them.  I'm going to fire them all and let the chips fall where they may."

My wife and I were both hired teachers, and we mainly made our business so we wouldn't have to deal with asshole management.  Now, we've resolved our position on staff.  If anyone wants to pick a fight with us, they're gone.  If they want to sue, they can, and I'll pay whatever the government thinks is appropriate.  But at every stage of that process, come hell or high water, I'm going to sleep like a baby-- because I'm going to be living the life I want to live.  Some college fuck isn't going to come into my 15 years of business development and tell me how to run the place-- no matter what memes they shout while they stamp their ineffectual little feet.

So yeah. . . I'm insecure about my future, and shitty employees hiding behind shitty identity-based memes are a part of that.  But I'm not insecure about who I am, how I want to live, or how I'm going to arrive at positions.

Quote:Often, when we stand up for "others" we are standing up for ourselves. 

I'm much like you with regards to the tales of derring-do.  My best moment in Korea was when I ran into an abandoned building to rescue a young lady from a heavily-tattooed gang member.  He was not particularly impressed when she scampered down the street barefoot with her top half ripped.  And if I actually saw someone attacking a black person, or an LGBTQ person, or an older person, they'd be on the receiving end of whatever blunt object was lying withing 10 feet of me at the time.

But that's not what I'm talking about.  I'm saying that EVEN THOUGH I've tried to meet these people in the middle, or in Tiz' case way way on his side, I do not feel it has been worth it to me.  I wasn't praised from outside.  I didn't feel pride or any nobility or sense of virtue on the inside.  There's simply no currency in it for me.  There is literally no motivation for me to keep jumping through rhetorical hoops, when they are clearly stacked against me and in favor of those who have no other claim over me: in virtue, intelligence, hard work, ambition, success, or any other metric.

The most dishonest person is one who pretends even to himself to have feelings, because he's been told he's supposed to.  And there's a lot of that, in every walk of life.  So in order for me to speak with real integrity, I have to say-- I simply don't give a shit about any of these issues.  Can't make me.  Not gonna do it.

I care about preparing classes, making kids laugh, saving money, expanding my business, making elegant computer programs, writing piano music, and in general making and achieving goals.  And the whole left-wing PC movement where everything has to be framed in terms of causes, movements, and so on, if I were to invest in it, would bring all that other stuff-- the stuff that ACTUALLY matters to me-- to a screeching halt.  So, black people-- good luck and have a happy life, but if you are going to work for me, keep that fucking card in your back pocket or you'll find out how little I care; if I hired you, then that's as far as I need to go, and further than many would have.  Gay people, same thing: make me some goddamned money.  Teach well, make students laugh like I do, bring in customers, and I'll shower you in love.  Suck at teaching, and accuse me of homophobia when I tell you you are harming my business, and you are going to be sent packing.

If I'm evil, then maybe I just need to own it.  If everyone expects me to mercilessly serve my own goals, then in a sense this is a free get-out-of-jail card.

Here's the empowered new me.  How do you like it?

(August 15, 2018 at 11:59 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Mainly Korean immigration laws.  It takes up to 6 weeks to process a new employee, and a lot of harm can come when classes are without a teacher for that length of time (obviously).  But the insecurity isn't so much about dealing with the people-- I've learned my lesson, and I will kick a fucker to the curb if they aren't going to do the job, as outlined in the contract and as I direct them to do it.  The insecurity is about the timing of my goals-- getting a fuckhead employee is a fairly random event, and is pretty hard to filter out in the interview process.  This means that the success of my business, and indirectly of my plans for my children's transition to Canada and so on, are partly RNG.  And nobody fucking likes RNG.

Imaging you're playing LOL, and there's a random debuff that lets the enemy team kill you, and this causes you to lose 10% of games.  That, in a practical sense, is about what leftist identity politics means to me when I say I'm anxious or insecure.

Sucks.  Here in the states, most employment is at-will..which means you can fire someone for any reason whatsoever at any time and there is no legal recourse to it at all..period. "I don;t like the way you look!" Legit..and legal.

Quote:I'm not claiming to be a victim.  Being insecure and blaming political positions isn't (at least to me) victimization.  It's victimization if I roll over and let them do it to me.  Ultimately, my position is that their political stance cannot possibly succeed in the long run, because people like me are going to wake up one day and say-- "Nah.  Avoiding or compromising with these fuckers just emboldens them.  I'm going to fire them all and let the chips fall where they may."

OFC you are.  You're a victim even if you fight back..but I think it's interesting that you're trying to rehabilitate this view as soon as I frame it in right wing paranoia speak.  

Quote:My wife and I were both hired teachers, and we mainly made our business so we wouldn't have to deal with asshole management.  Now, we've resolved our position on staff.  If anyone wants to pick a fight with us, they're gone.  If they want to sue, they can, and I'll pay whatever the government thinks is appropriate.  But at every stage of that process, come hell or high water, I'm going to sleep like a baby-- because I'm going to be living the life I want to live.  Some college fuck isn't going to come into my 15 years of business development and tell me how to run the place-- no matter what memes they shout while they stamp their ineffectual little feet.

It sounds like you aren't actually in any danger at all...so why the anxiety?  

Quote:So yeah. . . I'm insecure about my future, and shitty employees hiding behind shitty identity-based memes are a part of that.  But I'm not insecure about who I am, how I want to live, or how I'm going to arrive at positions.

So you aren't being white genocided or identity politiced to death........?  Imagine that.  

Quote:I'm much like you with regards to the tales of derring-do.  My best moment in Korea was when I ran into an abandoned building to rescue a young lady from a heavily-tattooed gang member.  He was not particularly impressed when she scampered down the street barefoot with her top half ripped.  And if I actually saw someone attacking a black person, or an LGBTQ person, or an older person, they'd be on the receiving end of whatever blunt object was lying withing 10 feet of me at the time.

Perhaps you should seek to align your politcial persuasions with your daily life and actions?  

Quote:But that's not what I'm talking about.  I'm saying that EVEN THOUGH I've tried to meet these people in the middle, or in Tiz' case way way on his side, I do not feel it has been worth it to me.  I wasn't praised from outside.  I didn't feel pride or any nobility or sense of virtue on the inside.  There's simply no currency in it for me.  There is literally no motivation for me to keep jumping through rhetorical hoops, when they are clearly stacked against me and in favor of those who have no other claim over me: in virtue, intelligence, hard work, ambition, success, or any other metric.

You virtue signaled and got nothing.  Why do you think that is?  

Quote:The most dishonest person is one who pretends even to himself to have feelings, because he's been told he's supposed to.  And there's a lot of that, in every walk of life.  So in order for me to speak with real integrity, I have to say-- I simply don't give a shit about any of these issues.  Can't make me.  Not gonna do it.

You think so?  Maybe..and I'm just spitballing..but it might actually be the case that people who say they're disgusted by right wing shit..... actually are disgusted by rightwing shit? 

Quote:I care about preparing classes, making kids laugh, saving money, expanding my business, making elegant computer programs, writing piano music, and in general making and achieving goals.  And the whole left-wing PC movement where everything has to be framed in terms of causes, movements, and so on, if I were to invest in it, would bring all that other stuff-- the stuff that ACTUALLY matters to me-- to a screeching halt.  So, black people-- good luck and have a happy life, but if you are going to work for me, keep that fucking card in your back pocket or you'll find out how little I care; if I hired you, then that's as far as I need to go, and further than many would have.  Gay people, same thing: make me some goddamned money.  Teach well, make students laugh like I do, bring in customers, and I'll shower you in love.  Suck at teaching, and accuse me of homophobia when I tell you you are harming my business, and you are going to be sent packing.

You think the left wing would bring education and music and making money to a screeching halt? That's.......incredibly interesting.  

Quote:If I'm evil, then maybe I just need to own it.  If everyone expects me to mercilessly serve my own goals, then in a sense this is a free get-out-of-jail card.

Here's the empowered new me.  How do you like it?

Well..sure, if you really are a dick then yeah..you should own it. But if you're a dick because dishonest people have manipulated you into thinking insane things by leveraging your pathological phobias.........

(August 16, 2018 at 12:24 am)Khemikal Wrote: OFC you are.  You're a victim even if you fight back..but I think it's interesting that you're trying to rehabilitate this view as soon as I frame it in right wing paranoia speak. 

I've already framed it this way, several pages ago.

Quote: 
So you aren't being white genocided or identity politiced to death........?  Imagine that.  

I can't take responsibility for saying any of that. I'm saying that I've been on the receiving end of identity politics, that the effects are real, and that this puts me against much of the "left."

Although, I frankly don't see them as the left, because when ideas are forced to be accepted at the point of social consequence, we're talking about a fascism of the left, not the supportive, loving laborers that I grew up knowing as democrats.

Quote:You virtue signaled and got nothing.  Why do you think that is?  

Because it's a pointless and valueless endeavor, and I shouldn't have done it.

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Quote:The most dishonest person is one who pretends even to himself to have feelings, because he's been told he's supposed to.  And there's a lot of that, in every walk of life.  So in order for me to speak with real integrity, I have to say-- I simply don't give a shit about any of these issues.  Can't make me.  Not gonna do it.

You think so?  Maybe..and I'm just spitballing..but it might actually be the case that people who say they're disgusted by right wing shit..... actually are disgusted by rightwing shit? 

I didn't say that many left wing people aren't sincere about their politics. I'm saying that if I pretend to identify with identity-based politics of the kind we're talking about, "I" would be insincere and dishonest.

Quote:Well..sure, if you really are a dick then yeah..you should own it. But if you're a dick because dishonest people have manipulated you into thinking insane things by leveraging your pathological phobias.........

I know what I like and dislike, and how I want to live. That's my political position. Fuck the college PC crowd for covering their incompetency in PC dogma. And fuck the American right for putting a fucking orangutan in the office of the president.

"Dick" is just shorthand for "refuse to adopt my world view, and unapologetic about it."

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(August 16, 2018 at 12:24 am)Khemikal Wrote: You think the left wing would bring education and music and making money to a screeching halt? That's.......incredibly interesting.  

No, I don't think that nor did I say it. I think that if I were to involve myself in left wing identity politics, which I care little about except when it inconveniences me-- if I were to INVEST myself in those ideas and causes in order not to be called a dick, then that would bring MY personal growth to a screeching halt. I have way more on my plate than I can handle, and I pump out achievements that make me happy for about an hour before I go the next item on my list. That's my "way of the warrior."

(August 15, 2018 at 4:42 pm)Tizheruk Wrote:

Quote:When I have to pretend that Caitlyn Jenner is a pretty pretty princess, and people seriously suggest that I should use "ze" and "zir," then I'm brought to the realization-- there's no fucking end to the insanity; there's no amount of compromise that will bring a light at the end of the tunnel, no amount of restitution or sympathy that will make it fine for me just to wake up in the morning and be what I am.

Oh no you might have too acknowledge trans people exist and that they have separate pronouns . Woe is you your so downtrodden . 

Quote:But in the end, I can choose whether to be complicit in all that.  None of these special snowflakes actually HAS anything on me.  I have a wife who puts up with me, children who are clearly turning out mostly okay, and I run my own business.  I have actual abilities upon which I can rely, and enough personal discipline to gradually improve my position in life over time.

And you have gone full everyone is out to get me mode .The Benny's burden "

Quote:And therein lies the rub.  Real power isn't found in legislation, or in witty memes in online forums.  It's found in creating things, real things in the real world, through ambition and an aggressive pursuit of goals.  The noisy college kids and angry feminists can squawk all they want, but in the end, they're going to have to shower and shave, sit in an office much like mine, and explain how they intend to contribute something more to the word than organic, gluten-free farts.

Wow demeaning and mischaracterizing people who actually fighting the good fight for a actually better world . Well you settled for the shit one we have now and indulge in the rat race for scraps

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(August 15, 2018 at 2:55 pm)robvalue Wrote: Okay what video do you want next? I've got him screaming at a rabbit or running around a hospital shooting a nail gun.

So Rob are you impressed or are you going to be one of "the noisy kids who actually believes in things or embrace Benny's land of "joy"

I think I'm going to remain a noisy bastard for now!