(April 2, 2019 at 10:23 am)bennyboy Wrote: I'd say full control means you will never get enraged, under any circumstance at all, even if someone is blocking your path or shouting obscenities at you or saying they feel "sorry for your family."  Maybe that would be better.  But I don't think it's reasonable to expect all instances of the human animal to be at that place.

There are a few who have that sort of control. You might be able to sort of get there through rigid discipline and strength of will. But most of the guys who have that sort of control were basically born with it, and the nurture that they experienced while growing up maintained it. It's largely a genetic attribute, like intelligence. In theory, a person with an IQ of 100 can learn anything thing that is understood by a person whose IQ is 150. Just more slowly, and with an iron will. If someone who has an IQ of 100 expects of themselves the standard of a person whose IQ is 150, they are going to feel like a failure. It's good to try to keep up with the IQ 150 guy, but they shouldn't expect to actually do it. A guy who beats himself up for not keeping up with a genius is always going to feel like a failure. It's the same with temperament. A few people have extreme control. Most don't.

Full control is something to aspire to. It's not something to beat yourself up about. You're not a failure. You tried to walk away. When your release valve was blocked, you smashed an inanimate object. That's actually not that big of a deal.

(April 2, 2019 at 10:10 am)bennyboy Wrote:

(April 2, 2019 at 7:41 am)Acrobat Wrote: Things like anger, and rage need moderation and self-control. We shouldn't say it okay that you don't have self-control, just like you shouldn't say it's okay for children to throw tantrums. You shouldn't reward bad behavior, or just be permissive towards it either.

Society, family and friends, telling you it's not okay when you rage out, or lash out on them, is part of what helps us gain self-control. I have to learn moderate my rage and anger, or I'll risk destroying my marriage, my friendship and family. It may be hard work, but because I love them, it's worth it. It's that constant voice, that reminds me when I feel like raging out, "hey man it's not worth it, you'll end up making things worse not better. "

The predominant opinion in this thread seems to be that an adult is expected to have self control, and that a lack of self control, especially if it affects others, is a moral failing.  The attitude seems to be that if you can be enraged, you don't care enough about your loved ones or other people in your environment to bother fixing yourself.  Is this really how people think the human mind works?  It seems pretty Biblical to me: God gave us free will, and those who use it for ill are culpable, because obviously it's their fault for being that way.

In 100% of other cases I can think of, it's understood that however people behave, it's because something about their brain or their learning made them that way.  But if a man can't control his temper-- he's a monster.

I don't see it like that, or in particularly moral terms. I'm just saying that without some degree of self control, or even a desire to control your temper, you'll just risk damaging your relationships, friendships, marriage etc...

I don't think it's something you can magically fix in an instant. But if you're of the opinion, that everyone should just accept your temper and anger issues, then nothing's going to change. But if you're of the attitude where you want to get things under control, don't want to damage you relationship as result of your resentment and anger, then it's possible over time that you will get it better under control. If you cared enough you would keep trying, and trying harder, where as if you don't care at all you're not going to bother. 

And I say this as person, who has anger issues of his own, that makes me pretty toxic. I probably would have lost my marriage, damaged my friendships, family etc.. if I didn't get it under control, and luckily those that loved  me were patient enough to put with me while I did. They were the motivation for change.

I think it's also important as others have suggested to figure out where all this anger stems from as well.

(April 2, 2019 at 11:50 am)Acrobat Wrote:  . I'm just saying that without some degree of self control, or even a desire to control your temper, you'll just  
 

This is exasperating to me. I mean, fucking duh. Why the fuck are we talking as if it has been suggested that there should be no self control are even the desire to self control?
 
Without self control or even the desire to control our temper? Oh fucking tell us more, wise sage!

Benny exercised self control. He attempted to open his release valve. He was blocked. This is exactly like the driver who attempts to swerve, but their passenger puts their hand on the wheel and prevents the swerve.

Anger and rage doesn't disappear by magic. It is abated through coping mechanisms. You fucking idiots keep acting like blocking the coping mechanism is a minor point. It's not a minor point. It's the primary point. If Benny's wife had not blocked him, Benny would have just gone for a walk. 

You can't prevent someone from opening their release valve, and then think that their anger should magically go away. If you think that you can do that, then you really do believe in magic, and you are the one who should probably get help, because you are too delusional to handle reality.
 
Sure, some sort of Jedi might find a release valve no matter how many release valves they are prevented from using, but why should anyone have to fight so hard just to use their own fucking right to self determination, and open their own fucking release valve?

Benny is a pretty good guy who doesn't want to blame his wife for his loss of temper. But you know what? He's never going to have this entire situation 'resolved' if he doesn't accept the facts. He needs to assert his right to use his coping mechanisms. The guy has a basic human right to go for a fucking walk to cool down, and his wife was an absolute dick about not letting him do that.

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(April 1, 2019 at 10:45 pm)Thena323 Wrote:

(April 1, 2019 at 10:18 pm)Yonadav Wrote: I am 99.9% certain that once I tell someone that I want to leave, they are violating the law if they won't let me past them. They don't have to threaten me. They don't have to have a weapon.

For the last time, not letting someone go requires an act of MORE than merely standing in a doorway and saying "No, I'm still talking." 

Unless perhaps, said person is massive enough to block the entire width of the doorway AND there are no other means of exit in the entire house except for that one goddamned door. 
Then you'd probably have a case.

Telling someone that they can't leave because you are still talking is aggression. You are blocking their right to walk away, and you are asserting a right to continue making them angry. You need to check your privilege.

Threads been a fascinating dive into the subject of shitty parents who tell kids that their lives are worthless, to take out aggression on objects, and the sinister nature of bossy females.  

(April 2, 2019 at 12:24 pm)Yonadav Wrote: This is exasperating to me. I mean, fucking duh. Why the fuck are we talking as if it has been suggested that there should be no self control are even the desire to self control?
 
Without self control or even the desire to control our temper? Oh fucking tell us more, wise sage!

Damn dude, tell me how you really feel?

I was just responding to the OP short on any details, not any specific instance regarding Benny's wife.

After reading a bit more into the thread, wow man you have some serious issues with women. Here's to hoping you don't have any daughters.

(April 2, 2019 at 1:25 pm)Acrobat Wrote:

(April 2, 2019 at 12:24 pm)Yonadav Wrote: This is exasperating to me. I mean, fucking duh. Why the fuck are we talking as if it has been suggested that there should be no self control are even the desire to self control?
 
Without self control or even the desire to control our temper? Oh fucking tell us more, wise sage!

Damn dude, tell me how you really feel?

I was just responding to the OP short on any details, not any specific instance regarding Benny's wife.

After reading a bit more into the thread, wow man you have some serious issues with women. Here's to hoping you don't have any daughters.

Yeah, I was probably a little harsh. But here's what you said:

"I'm just saying that without some degree of self control, or even a desire to control your temper, you'll just risk damaging your relationships, friendships, marriage etc... "

So you can see how I might be a bit irritated by you sagely pronouncing the mind blowingly obvious.

I call women on their BS. I call men on their BS. Part of female BS is to call anyone a misogynist for calling them on their BS. I just don't give a shit when I'm called a misogynist. 

(April 2, 2019 at 7:14 am)bennyboy Wrote:

(April 2, 2019 at 6:26 am)Thena323 Wrote: Unimportant details, no.

But you damn well know why your wife was so concerned about you leaving the house at the moment...And you've been up here pretending that she was just following you around nagging you over mundane couple stuff.

You've revealed yourself to be quite the liar and master manipulator here, benny, despite your claims of being unable to control your anger. I can only imagine the level of bullshit your family to put up with IRL. What a depressing, bleak, and stressful existence it must be for them.

I feel sorry for your kids.

That's quite the indictment-- you are expressing quite a lot of hatred toward me.  I'm assuming that you've been on the other side of this equation, and that in projecting me onto someone you know, you are also projecting your feelings about him onto me.  If so, I'm sorry that whatever happened to you happened-- I doubt it will bring you any peace, but I can guarantee you that whatever that guy actually said, inside he already hated himself more than you ever will.

Lol...No need to feel sorry for me. My father was neither violent, stupid, or ridiculously self-centered and I've never had a mate who operates like you.
Your behavior is not something I'd even consider tolerating in a relationship.

(April 2, 2019 at 1:03 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: Threads been a fascinating dive into the subject of shitty parents who tell kids that their lives are worthless, to take out aggression on objects, and the sinister nature of bossy females.  

DUDE, I told you it was PMDD. They gave me drugs for it!!! 😝

Quote:, but I can guarantee you that whatever that guy actually said, inside he already hated himself more than you ever will.

You can guarantee fuck all 

I think we can all agree that rage is something all humans experience, and the only thing we can control is our behavior. If this thread is in support of the bad behavior of raging men, it's bad. If it's in support of recognizing rage as natural and controlling our response to it, it's good. As for all of the other he-man woman-hater's shit this thread has coughed up, that's an entirely different nut to crack.