(May 23, 2020 at 7:55 am)Fake Messiah Wrote:

(May 23, 2020 at 3:56 am)Johanabrahams Wrote: God is not evil and not into punishment.

So if God doesn't do anything to stop evil why even worship that God? Especially since God created evil, at least according to the Bible:

The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. Proverbs 16:4

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things. -- Isaiah 45:7

(May 23, 2020 at 3:56 am)Johanabrahams Wrote: So God didn't punish Hitler.  But evil got him in the end.

Oh so evil got Hitler in the end, but not before he murdered 5 million people and that was just Jews since there were many more besides them.

(May 23, 2020 at 3:56 am)Johanabrahams Wrote: Just think about the consequences his family and the nation is still suffering as a result.

I am, and that's why I say God should have killed Hitler before many millions would suffer as a consequence, because remember The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

(May 23, 2020 at 3:56 am)Johanabrahams Wrote: Evil that humans allow in their lives also have the consequences on "babies".

Don't you think that God who sees babies as evil is evil?

(May 23, 2020 at 3:56 am)Johanabrahams Wrote: Those guys in the OT would never have understood "Love your enemies".  God takes it step by step.  Building us up

Oh yes, those poor Israelites didn't know that killing (babies) and raping was wrong until God told them, although other nations with other Gods knew it. Especially since God doesn't love his enemies, for even Jesus built Hell for his enemies and vowed destruction for whole nations when he was "alive" because he saw them as his enemies, like:

20 Then Jesus began to denounce the towns in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. 21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. 23 And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades. For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. 24 But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”  Matthew 11:20-24

No wonder later Christians were constantly looking for enemies to kill.

Quote:So if God doesn't do anything to stop evil why even worship that God?

Because God stopped evil in me.

Quote:Especially since God created evil, at least according to the Bible:

Yep.  He did.  

Quote:Oh so evil got Hitler in the end, but not before he murdered 5 million people and that was just Jews since there were many more besides them.

Yep.  Evil is bad.

Quote:I am

Ok.  From His Family or just German?

Quote:and that's why I say God should have killed Hitler before many millions would suffer as a consequence, because remember The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Sure He made evil for those that want it.  But He did warn everybody not to walk on its road. 

Gen. 4
  But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

   And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
  7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.*n6
   And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

Quote:Don't you think that God who sees babies as evil is evil?

You think babies are good?

Quote:Oh yes, those poor Israelites didn't know that killing (babies) and raping was wrong until God told them, although other nations with other Gods knew it.

Yep.  When slavery was accepted everywhere countries didn't accept it as wrong all at once.  Some are even still into it as I think.  My country South Africa too.  We didn't know apartheid was wrong while others knew it before us.  We also didn't know corporal punishment was wrong until a few months ago that the law was passed.

Quote:24 But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”  Matthew 11:20-24

Good.  Sodom will have a better Judgment Day.

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(May 23, 2020 at 8:04 am)brewer Wrote:

(May 23, 2020 at 2:11 am)Johanabrahams Wrote: Thanks for helping me out.  Now i have more to go on.  So you think my problem was "lacking of comprehension"?  Or maybe talking to "myself"?

We are into God's Love here.  From ever to every.  And I am talking to everyone that wants to know more about God's Love.  But obviously enjoying it more with those already into God's Love.  Hoping you will become one of the latter ones of course.  But not forcing because Love does not force.

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Wow, that's very creepy.

I believe you're delusional, that's your main problem.

I'm hoping you'll be able to see the delusion, but people of your ilk rarely can.

Quote:Wow, that's very creepy.

Love is creepy to you?  Why?

Quote:I believe you're delusional, that's your main problem.

Why?

Quote:I'm hoping you'll be able to see the delusion, but people of your ilk rarely can.

We are in a discussion.  So you have your opportunity to do it.

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(May 23, 2020 at 9:43 am)chimp3 Wrote:

(May 23, 2020 at 2:11 am)Johanabrahams Wrote:

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Seems you don't know what I am here for.  Maybe my post will help?

So you are into "fucking off" those that do wrong.  God is into Loving those that do wrong.  So when you are doing wrong. Please don't "fuck off".  But in Love there are better words.  You will learn.  In being with me.  The example of the Parents pull the Kids.  These are capitals.  To help with your comprehension that they are Gods.  So you get your "dad" and the Dad.  Which is the Dad God.  And kids which are human kids and Kids which are God's Kids.

Preaching then! Fuck off!

How did you see it to be "preaching"?

(May 24, 2020 at 7:39 am)Johanabrahams Wrote:

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(May 23, 2020 at 8:04 am)brewer Wrote: Wow, that's very creepy.

I believe you're delusional, that's your main problem.

I'm hoping you'll be able to see the delusion, but people of your ilk rarely can.

Quote:Wow, that's very creepy.

Love is creepy to you?  Why?

Quote:I believe you're delusional, that's your main problem.

Why?

Quote:I'm hoping you'll be able to see the delusion, but people of your ilk rarely can.

We are in a discussion.  So you have your opportunity to do it.

Not love itself, your version of love. The creep is you.

Your delusional because you use a fantasy creature to justify your obsession with your version of love.

I have no desire to discuss your delusion, I've read your material, you lack insight and use the delusion to justify and manipulate.

So tell me Johan. Are you still luring in "followers" with cheap booze? Or have you given up that scurrilous practice?

(May 24, 2020 at 6:31 am)Johanabrahams Wrote:

(May 23, 2020 at 1:01 pm)Gwaithmir Wrote: Anyone who actually thinks God is love should read the Book of Job. If you still think God is love after that, you're deluded and lying to yourself.

 Nope.  I can not change.

Job 42
  10 And the Lord turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before.

   Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the Lord had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.
   So the Lord blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses.
   He had also seven sons and three daughters.
   And he called the name of the first, Jemima; and the name of the second, Kezia; and the name of the third, Keren–happuch.
   And in all the land were no women found so fair as the daughters of Job: and their father gave them inheritance among their brethren.
   After this lived Job an hundred and forty years, and saw his sons, and his sons’ sons, even four generations.
   So Job died, being old and full of days.

Wrong! You have the capacity to change, you simply lack the intellectual honesty to do so.

In this book God is guilty of the gratuitous killing of human beings, the wanton destruction of property, the unjustified assault on job's person, and a hideous display of his own egotism and conceit---all for the sole purpose of winning a bet with the Devil. The fact that God later restored Job's wealth does not erase the reality of his crimes. The fact that Job lacked the moral courage to stand erect and shout, "J'accuse!" at his tyrant deity does not vindicate God's immoral behavior either.

Your God is about as full of love as Hitler.

You are a perfect example of how religion and faith debilitate the mind and unfit it for honest thinking.

How do I know? Easy our holy book 'The Mighty Tambi' details FSM endless love, For example Xhe has never condoned slavery.

Creepy and kooky! Here is a quote from his twitter page: "I am a Wife of God.  He is your Father and I am your Mother.  The Family of God is now a reality."  Whew!! 

(May 24, 2020 at 1:15 pm)chimp3 Wrote: Creepy and kooky! Here is a quote from his twitter page: "I am a Wife of God.  He is your Father and I am your Mother.  The Family of God is now a reality."  Whew!! 

You have no idea. The cheese didn't just slide of his cracker, it went into orbit. You have no idea just how crazy this guy is. I have had email exchange with his former fellow pastors. I have the court documents for him being slung out by his town. And much more besides.

I am not keen to rake over old coals, but if this loon pushes it, I have no problem doing so. Because he is not just some internet loon, he is actually dangerous in the real world.

(May 24, 2020 at 6:31 am)Johanabrahams Wrote:

(May 23, 2020 at 2:28 pm)JohnMBauer Wrote: So Johanabrahams said that

    (1) "God is love," [Msg #1]

and that

    (2) "love is a feeling." [Msg #20]

Therefore, we must conclude that

    (3) God is a feeling.

Well, that is a fairly innocuous and altogether uninteresting conclusion.

It also means that talking about "God's love" is incoherent, as it amounts to speaking of love's love. (Huh? Feelings don't have feelings.)



As chimp3 said: Who is this "we" to whom you are referring? Because, as it turns out, "we" don't feel that way at all. I'm willing to grant that some people do (and maybe you're one of them), but I suspect that quite a lot of people don't feel that way at all (and I'm one of those).


Pro tip: Presuming to speak for everybody can come across as really condescending, not to mention a bit insulting. It is not endearing.


If he doesn't exist (isn't real), then he doesn't love us—since no referent exists for the consequently meaningless "he."

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P.S. This will be my one and only engagement with Johanabrahams, as I find him intolerably incoherent.

Quote:Well, that is a fairly innocuous and altogether uninteresting conclusion.

Yep.  I agree.

I will try and make an interesting one.

Then maybe we can engage a bit longer?

Quote:As chimp3 said: Who is this "we" to whom you are referring? Because, as it turns out, "we" don't feel that way at all. I'm willing to grant that some people do (and maybe you're one of them), but I suspect that quite a lot of people don't feel that way at all (and I'm one of those).

Nope.  I am not one that wants God to come and solve covid19.  I am with you.  But just for a different reason i think.  

Quote:Pro tip: Presuming to speak for everybody can come across as really condescending, not to mention a bit insulting. It is not endearing.

Thanks.  We are growing together.  

Quote:If he doesn't exist (isn't real), then he doesn't love us—since no referent exists for the consequently meaningless "he."

You don't think superman would have stopped covid if he was real?

Quote:P.S. This will be my one and only engagement with Johanabrahams, as I find him intolerably incoherent.

Ok.  I understand that.  But maybe this reply is a bit better?

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(May 24, 2020 at 6:21 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: It isn't at all clear that the concept of 'love' is even applicable to God.

Since we can understand love to mean the situation that exists when another person's happiness is essential to your own, it follows that if I'm unhappy, then God is unhappy. If God is transcendent, then God is immutable and can't have varying emotional states.  Since, therefore, my unhappiness cannot make God unhappy, it follows that God not only doesn't love me, but isn't even capable of loving me.

Boru

Quote:It isn't at all clear that the concept of 'love' is even applicable to God.

yep.  I agree.  But it is because we just started with this topic.

Quote:Since we can understand love to mean the situation that exists when another person's happiness is essential to your own, it follows that if I'm unhappy, then God is unhappy.

I agree.  We have to be Perfectly Happy and Fulfilled for Him to be the same.  

Quote: If God is transcendent, then God is immutable and can't have varying emotional states.  Since, therefore, my unhappiness cannot make God unhappy, it follows that God not only doesn't love me, but isn't even capable of loving me.

So we have to find another interpretation of your "transcendent".

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(May 23, 2020 at 1:01 pm)Gwaithmir Wrote: Anyone who actually thinks God is love should read the Book of Job. If you still think God is love after that, you're deluded and lying to yourself.

 Nope.  I can not change.

Job 42
  10 And the Lord turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before.

   Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the Lord had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.
   So the Lord blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses.
   He had also seven sons and three daughters.
   And he called the name of the first, Jemima; and the name of the second, Kezia; and the name of the third, Keren–happuch.
   And in all the land were no women found so fair as the daughters of Job: and their father gave them inheritance among their brethren.
   After this lived Job an hundred and forty years, and saw his sons, and his sons’ sons, even four generations.
   So Job died, being old and full of days.

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(May 23, 2020 at 12:53 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: No. Speaking from a place of logic. “Mysterious ways” is neither an argument nor an explanation for such a contradiction.

Quote:No. Speaking from a place of logic.

So you agree then.  You don't know Him.

I have no case to make to you. I don’t believe he exists. How do you know you know him?

(May 24, 2020 at 7:04 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: I have no case to make to you. I don’t believe he exists. How do you know you know him?

Ask him why he got fired from his job in childcare.

(May 24, 2020 at 2:38 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote:

(May 24, 2020 at 1:15 pm)chimp3 Wrote: Creepy and kooky! Here is a quote from his twitter page: "I am a Wife of God.  He is your Father and I am your Mother.  The Family of God is now a reality."  Whew!! 

You have no idea. The cheese didn't just slide of his cracker, it went into orbit. You have no idea just how crazy this guy is. I have had email exchange with his former fellow pastors. I have the court documents for him being slung out by his town. And much more besides.

I am not keen to rake over old coals, but if this loon pushes it, I have no problem doing so. Because he is not just some internet loon, he is actually dangerous in the real world.

How do you know him??